From atheism to tentative agnosticism

[Polaris]

So you're becoming a genuine Deist. You believe that there is a god, but don't buy into religion as you see it all around you.

Honestly, I don't see how that would be a major issue in relating to most atheists (or well anti-theists) who seem to be against religion and not so much a general belief in the supernatural.

[Inigo]

So you're becoming a genuine Deist. You believe that there is a god, but don't buy into religion as you see it all around you.

Honestly, I don't see how that would be a major issue in relating to most atheists (or well anti-theists) who seem to be against religion and not so much a general belief in the supernatural.

Well, the issue for me is what is true, rather than what will or won't bother people.

It should also be noted that most atheists who argue against the substantial views of various religions are actually 'morally' outraged by such views. they are appalled by the moral misguidedness of the religious and concerned that a religous world view can inspire people to behave in appalling ways that they would not otherwise have contemplated. All, I have to say, entirely legitimate concerns. However, the atheist is inconsistent in having such concerns, for their moral outrage presupposes the existence of something that their world view disallows: morality.

But anyway, the bottom line is I am interested in what actually exists and what is actually going on. And it seems to me that Atheism may well be false. I think christianity is as well. Perhaps most atheists are more concerned to show christianity to be false than atheism to be true. So be it. The fact remains, atheism seems to be false.

[The Grand Nudger]

However, the atheist is inconsistent in having such concerns, for their moral outrage presupposes the existence of something that their world view disallows: morality.

Complete garbage. Morality exists, and opinions on morality exist - regardless of the existence of gods.

The fact remains, atheism seems to be false.

Not for the reasons you've mentioned. Atheism is not a position on the non-existence (or existence) of morality. Handle it directly. Morality is fine for atheists and atheism, the only thing off limits is a god.

[Inigo]

Complete garbage. Morality exists, and opinions on morality exist - regardless of the existence of gods.

Good argument. Really impressive stuff.

[Polaris]

So you're becoming a genuine Deist. You believe that there is a god, but don't buy into religion as you see it all around you.

Honestly, I don't see how that would be a major issue in relating to most atheists (or well anti-theists) who seem to be against religion and not so much a general belief in the supernatural.

Well, the issue for me is what is true, rather than what will or won't bother people.

It should also be noted that most atheists who argue against the substantial views of various religions are actually 'morally' outraged by such views. they are appalled by the moral misguidedness of the religious and concerned that a religous world view can inspire people to behave in appalling ways that they would not otherwise have contemplated. All, I have to say, entirely legitimate concerns. However, the atheist is inconsistent in having such concerns, for their moral outrage presupposes the existence of something that their world view disallows: morality.

But anyway, the bottom line is I am interested in what actually exists and what is actually going on. And it seems to me that Atheism may well be false. I think christianity is as well. Perhaps most atheists are more concerned to show christianity to be false than atheism to be true. So be it. The fact remains, atheism seems to be false.

Most atheists don't care either way. It's only a select number of atheists who are anti-theists (just like most theists behave perfectly normal) of whom only a small portion loose rational thought in the process.

Can atheism truly be false when viewed by itself? Maybe you are asserting that the atheists who let their prejudice of religion negatively affect their ability to live a life centered on logic and reason are living a false life.

[Inigo]

Can atheism truly be false when viewed by itself? Maybe you are asserting that the atheists who let their prejudice of religion negatively affect their ability to live a life centered on logic and reason are living a false life.

If atheism is false it is false. It doesn't matter who cares. And it is false just if a god exists.

[Cyberman]

That's one hell of a 'just' right there!

[The Grand Nudger]

If atheism is false it is false. It doesn't matter who cares. And it is false just if a god exists.

Atheism isn't false even if there is a god..lol. No more so than theism is false even if there weren't a theistic god. There are folks who don;t "believe" in evolution, after all. The status of a belief is independent of the status of reality about that belief. Perhaps there is a god, but i see no reason to believe in one, and that wouldn't change- even if there were a god (all other things remaining unchanged).

[Inigo]

Atheism isn't false even if there is a god..lol. No more so than theism is false even if there weren't a theistic god. There are folks who don;t "believe" in evolution, after all. The status of a belief is independent of the status of reality about that belief. Perhaps there is a god, but i see no reason to believe in one, and that wouldn't change- even if there were a god (all other things remaining unchanged).

Atheism is false if a god exists. Cue pointless semantic discussion in which it turns out that when you say you're an atheist you're not claiming anything about how the universe is (in which case jiust shut up then).

[The Grand Nudger]

Seing as it's a statement regarding -belief- about existence, and not a statement about existence, you're dead in the water here.

"Shut up atheist"



This is really simple, do you feel competent enough to prove that I believe?