Hypocrisy of Teachers

[Ben Davis]

If you knowingly work and support a violent institution you are also guilty of the crimes committed. Are you saying that Nazis were just doing their job too and that they weren't responsible for the actions of the Government?

That depends entirely on the role you're performing; one might work for the Axis of Evil but only be a receptionist or tea-server. Teachers are not responsible for taxation or the enforcement of taxation no matter how you spin it.

No, we all share federal debt. A conservative estimate is that each newborn in USA has $50,000 of debt.

Apologies, I misread your post/missed your point. Yes, one can calculate government spending as a 'per capita' Federal Debt average but that's not a statement of causation or accountability for the debt. The majority of it can be traced back to poor government investment, poor Banking practices and Corporation Tax avoidance. As a result of bad decision-making, Bank bailouts and tax-loopholes, the government has off-set much of the debt against the tax-payer thus causing a large number of spending cuts, including teacher's salaries. Teachers are as much victims of poor fiscal management as any other tax-payer.

There are better analogies you could have chosen to make your point.

[thesummerqueen]

Taxes are the fee one pays to enjoy the luxuries of whatever society one lives in. It's not stealing. You don't have to pay if you don't want to. Just go live in the woods somewhere.

So you are saying that the Jews voluntarily chose to live under the Nazi's rule because they didn't flee to the woods?

Yes, and no. You are ridiculously black and white.

My family left to avoid the Nazis, but my family at one point had a lot of wealth. They were able to make that choice. Many people are not so lucky. That is not THEIR fault, but the fault of other countries for not granting them asylum, the fault of the German people for not protecting them, the fault of surrounding nations for not standing up to the threat beforehand. And in small part, because the Jews, like MANY OTHER PEOPLE, have a reluctance to leave a home where their ancestors might have lived - sometimes for hundreds of years. Especially considering how insular the Jews were (by choice, and by the way society forced them to be). What chance do they have in a strange country.

Also, thank you for Godwinning the thread in order to try and make a point without actually understanding the intricacies of society. Nazis have nothing to do with teachers, you schmuck.

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Right but they work for the government don't they?

If I knowingly work for the Mafia, can I really claim that I am not part of a violent organisation?

The mafia wasn't elected. The government is.

That would apply if it was voluntary. It's not agreed upon.

Government is not agreed upon unless every single person in that area explicitly agrees, you can't assume someone's agreement in a contract, that is illegal.

I can't logically or morally use someone else's signature without permission, since it is not true - that person didn't agree to it by definition. So if you can't assume the agreement of one person, then you certainly can't assume the agreement of millions including the unborn.

You don't have to pay your taxes. You can be like Wesley Snipes and NOT pay them. And then you can get arrested for not doing so whilst still enjoying all the benefits those taxes give you. Roads. Running water. Public areas. Schooling for the children who will one day be wiping your ass in a nursing home.

[Whateverist]

If anyone has been in public sector education, you would of heard the school say to you "It is never okay for you to hit someone/to take someone's property without permission/ etc"

Funny, I teach in a public school and I've never heard any such instruction. I guess some things are understood implicitly.

Yet the parents of the children have to pay for the teachers salary through involuntary taxes, otherwise they get forcefully thrown in a cage.

You shouldn't think of it as stealing. The point of taxing you against your parsimonious will is to provide students with the knowledge base to compete with you for your wealth. The point is to inject a little fairness, some degree of meritocracy, into the system. We're not just grabbing your tax cash to throw students a fish or two. We'd like to give him the skills necessary to put a serious dent in your fishing business.

If I might ask, what degree of silver spoon did you inherit that makes you feel entitled to pauperize the masses who start with less?

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I edited it. I realised very soon I went off course. If the government forces you to pay and forces you to stay, then that is stealing. If you have the choice to leave, it's not stealing. But like I said, if any stealing is going on, the teachers aren't even the ones doing it. It is not contradictory.

Thank you for that.

Right but they work for the government don't they?

Not me. I work for my student's best interests. The government just collects the revenue which pay my salary. Thanks for your contribution. I recently had to put on another investment banker to keep up with all that salary.

[Koolay]

You shouldn't think of it as stealing.

So to make it clear, you are not critisizing my argument on why taxation is stealing, but that you are telling me what to think, when it is entirely irrelevant.

Is what I am saying correct or not? I don't care what your opinions are.

The point of taxing you against your parsimonious will is to provide students with the knowledge base to compete with you for your wealth.

Actually when public schools were established, it's sole purpose was to propagandise children into allegiance to the religion or monarchy/state. It had nothing to do with increasing the child's human capital.

The point is to inject a little fairness, some degree of meritocracy, into the system. We're not just grabbing your tax cash to throw students a fish or two. We'd like to give him the skills necessary to put a serious dent in your fishing business.

Public schools do not have business skills anywhere on the curriculum, by definition, you are taught to obey 'authority' and not to challenge the status quo.

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Not me. I work for my student's best interests. The government just collects the revenue which pay my salary.

No, it violently takes the revenue.

And how do I know that you are working for your student bests interest, when they are essentially held as political hostages inside your classroom.

If they came to you voluntarily, then I would believe you.

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Right but they work for the government don't they?

If I knowingly work for the Mafia, can I really claim that I am not part of a violent organisation?

The mafia wasn't elected. The government is.

So you are saying that the initiation of violence is justified if people put a piece of paper in a ballot box?

[thesummerqueen]

So you are saying that the initiation of violence is justified if people put a piece of paper in a ballot box?

No. You are strawmanning everyone here in order to make your stupid point. Based on what I've seen of you here on this forum, I think you are a complete twat.

You cannot equate the mafia and the government. The mafia 'governs' by violence against everyone, including its own 'protectorants,' who do not always choose to be protected. The mafia simply moves in.

The government is formulated by the people. Maybe not by every single putz on the street, but then again, I don't want Joe the Plumber making my decisions either. I'd rather vote in an intelligent person who can make a reasonable decision on my behalf. I chose that motherfucker to make my decisions in the senate and the House. The government also, as a rule, doesn't "use violence" against its people. If you think it does, you better start talking fast, because if it were we'd have another revolution going on right now. Getting put in jail is not 'violent' unless you resist, and resisting arrest for not paying your taxes is about as goddamn dumb and selfish as you get.

Of course, I'm speaking of the American government.

I never said it was okay for anyone to be violenced if a (unspecified, by your description) vote was made. Stop misrepresenting our words, twatchops.

[Tonus]

No, it violently takes the revenue.

That's... inaccurate. I think what you're trying to say is that the government collects taxes under the threat of force, though even that is somewhat melodramatic. I've paid taxes for quite a number of years now, and cannot recall a single incident where government agents grabbed me, beat me up, and took X percent of my wages for the week.

[Koolay]

No, it violently takes the revenue.

That's... inaccurate. I think what you're trying to say is that the government collects taxes under the threat of force, though even that is somewhat melodramatic. I've paid taxes for quite a number of years now, and cannot recall a single incident where government agents grabbed me, beat me up, and took X percent of my wages for the week.

Using threats of violence is still using violence.

[thesummerqueen]

That's... inaccurate. I think what you're trying to say is that the government collects taxes under the threat of force, though even that is somewhat melodramatic. I've paid taxes for quite a number of years now, and cannot recall a single incident where government agents grabbed me, beat me up, and took X percent of my wages for the week.

Using threats of violence to acquire resources is still using violence.

No one was threatening violence. Only jail time.

[Koolay]

If you knowingly work and support a violent institution you are also guilty of the crimes committed. Are you saying that Nazis were just doing their job too and that they weren't responsible for the actions of the Government?

That depends entirely on the role you're performing; one might work for the Axis of Evil but only be a receptionist or tea-server. Teachers are not responsible for taxation or the enforcement of taxation no matter how you spin it.

That is not true, teachers are minions and propagandists of the state, they abuse children to break them into the status quo mould of obedience to the hierarchy.

Teachers are as much victims of poor fiscal management as any other tax-payer.

That is not true, teachers take advantage of the state's violence and make a living out of propagandising and abusing children into fascists. Everyone in the government is a cancer, there is no good amount of government since the government is inherently contradictory and evil, including the 'teacher' minions. I can not wait until all of those parasites under the banner of government are dropped off at the deep end, and forced to get a real job when the government inevitably runs out of money.

[thesummerqueen]

That is not true, teachers are minions and propagandists of the state, they abuse children to break them into the status quo mould of obedience to the hierarchy.

Now I know you're a troll.

That is not true, teachers take advantage of the state's violence and make a living out of propagandising and abusing children into fascists. Everyone in the government is a cancer, there is no good amount of government since the government is inherently contradictory and evil, including the 'teacher' minions.

Wait, are you my dad?