Zimmerman verdict: Not Guilty.

[Gilgamesh]

shit thanks for saving my ass man that was close

[popeyespappy]

Zimmerman shoots a kid to death without firing any warning shots of his own...gets off scot-free.

I curious if you believe Zimmerman had a responsibility to fire warning shots at someone sitting on his chest punching him in the face?

[Creed of Heresy]

Given that the fists of a skinny high schooler are not as lethal as a firearm...yes, I think he did.

[Dionysius]

Some interesting extraneous information related to the Zimmerman incident

http://www.americanthinker.com/2012/06/w...ayvon.html


6:21
Trayvon Martin is seen on the security video through the 7-11 window approaching the store from the direction of the Retreat at Twin Lakes. He had been staying there at the townhouse of his father's girlfriend, Brandy Green. In major media accounts, the helpful Trayvon ventured out in the rain in a mile-plus round trip to buy Brandy's 14-year-old son, Chad, some Skittles and Arizona Iced Tea. Not likely.

6:22
Trayvon, with his hoodie up, grabs two items from the shelves of 7-11. One is the Skittles. The other is Arizona Watermelon Fruit Juice Cocktail. The media avoid the name of the real drink -- possibly because of the racial implications of the word "watermelon," but possibly to avoid probing the real reason for Trayon's trip.

Trayvon, in fact, had become a devotee of the druggy concoction known as "Lean," also known in southern hip-hop culture as "Sizzurp" and "Purple Drank." Lean consists of three basic ingredients -- codeine, a soft drink, and candy. If his Facebook postings are to be believed, Trayvon had been using Lean since at least June 2011.

On June 27, 2011, Trayvon asks a friend online, "unow a connect for codien?" He tells the friend that "robitussin nd soda" could make "some fire ass lean." He says, "I had it before" and that he wants "to make some more." On the night of February 26, if Brandy had some Robitussin at home, Trayvon had just bought the mixings for one "fire ass lean" cocktail.

6:23
Trayvon pays for his purchases. He then appears to point to an item behind the counter, but the clerk seems to reject that option. Trayvon turns from the counter with a couple of dollar bills still in his hand.

6:24
Trayvon leaves the 7-11, but we do not see him walk in front of the store window back towards Brandy's home.

6:25
Three squirrely young men enter the 7-11, all of them with their faces concealed in part or in full. The clerk had to have been nervous. One of the three (Curly) takes off his hat and shakes out his long, curly dark hair. He is likely either white or Hispanic, or, like Zimmerman, a "white Hispanic."

6:27
Curly appears to be holding the two bills Trayvon walked out with. He approaches the clerk and buys two cheap cigars from behind the counter and then a third one as an afterthought.

6:28
Curly is the first of three to exit. The others will follow in a minute.

6:29
Trayvon, turning as he walks, can be seen through the window heading back towards the Retreat at Twin Lakes and Brandy's house.

7:09
Zimmerman calls police while watching Trayvon near the gated community's clubhouse, less than a half-mile from the 7-11. According to "Dee-Dee," the girl Trayvon was periodically talking to on his cell phone, he was ducking in out of the rain. She also said he put his hoodie up for the same reason. In fact, though, Trayvon had his hoodie up inside the 7-11, and he was walking in the rain when Zimmerman spotted him. The walk to this point should have taken 10 minutes.

It took 40 minutes. Some background may help explain why. Earlier that same month, Trayvon had been caught at school holding a bag with marijuana residue and a marijuana pipe. He was suspended for the third time that school year, this time for ten days. Trayvon may have been dealing as well. As one online friend had communicated earlier, "Damn were u at a nigger need a plant."

Trayvon was partial to "blunts," street slang for cannabis rolled with the tobacco-leaf wrapper from an inexpensive cigar called a "blunt." As a tribute after his death, one friend posted online a photo of a homemade badge honoring Trayvon positioned next to a blunt.

It seems altogether possible that Curly bought at least one of those cigars for the under-aged Trayvon and took those visible dollar bills as payment. Trayvon waited five minutes outside the 7-11 and did not leave until after Curly came out. In the 40 minutes before Zimmerman spotted him, Trayvon could have scraped the tobacco out of the cigar, replaced it with marijuana, and smoked his blunt.

"This guy looks like he's up to no good," Zimmerman tells the police. "Or he's on drugs or something. It's raining and he's just walking around, looking about." Trayvon was on drugs or had been recently. His autopsy showed the presence of THC, the psychoactive ingredient in marijuana, in both his blood and his urine.

It is possible too that Trayvon was up to no good. "He's just staring, looking at all the houses," says Zimmerman. Trayvon had a history. On October 21, 2011, he received his second suspension that school year. A security guard at his school saw Trayvon writing "WTF" on a hallway locker. In looking through his bag for the marker, the guard found 12 pieces of jewelry, a watch, and a "burglary tool."

Zimmerman did the prudent thing by reporting Trayvon to the police. Ever since the Florida real estate bust, the Retreat at Twin Lakes had been troubled by vacancies, foreclosures, and renters of dubious repute. The community had suffered numerous break-ins and home invasions, the perpetrators of which were all young men, most of them black. "We report all suspicious persons & activities to the Sanford Police Department," reads the standard neighborhood watch sign at the community's gated entrance. If Trayvon did not fit the bill, no one did.

7:10
"He's coming towards me," Zimmerman tells the police about Trayvon, who is now walking towards his truck. He makes his first firm identification of Trayvon as "a black male." Adds Zimmerman, "He's coming to check me out. He's got something in his hands." Zimmerman sounds a little anxious: "Please, get an officer over here."

7:11
After Trayvon passes his truck, Zimmerman says, "Shit, he's running." He is heading towards "the back entrance," says Zimmerman. That entrance is in the same general direction as Brandy's townhouse. A question that goes unasked is why Trayvon was running.

7:12
When asked by the dispatcher, Zimmerman agrees not to follow Trayvon, and his heavy breathing ends. "He ran," says Zimmerman. Even if running slowly, Trayvon could have made it to Brandy's house in a half a minute. It was only 100 yards from the truck.

7:13
Zimmerman is hesitant to give out his address. "I don't know where this kid is." He looks around to see where Trayvon has gone, fails to spot him, terminates his call, and heads back to the truck.

7:14 - 7:16
These are the missing two minutes. After receiving a call from Dee-Dee, Trayvon has come back to confront Zimmerman. Their final confrontation takes place 70 yards from Brandy's townhouse and only 30 yards from Zimmerman's truck. No one hunted Trayvon down. Although he has kept the drink and candy on his person, Trayvon does not have a blunt with him.

According to the autopsy report, Trayvon was 5'11" tall and weighed 158 pounds, the "ideal healthy weight" at that height being 160 pounds. He was not the skinny little boy with the Skittles that half of America still believes him to be. He was at least three inches taller than Zimmerman and only about 20 pounds lighter.

His home life a wreck, his school life in disarray, Trayvon had fallen victim to urban America's lost boy culture.
This culture, which the media also choose not to see, has been shockingly destructive. Citing Bureau of Justice statistics, black economist Walter Williams in a recent column notes that "between 1976 and 2011, there were 279,384 black murder victims." Of these, Williams estimates that roughly "262,621 were murdered by other blacks."

Trayvon had "statistic" written all over him. In the past year or so, his social media sites showed a growing interest in drugs, in mixed martial arts-style street fighting, in a profoundly vulgar exploitation of "bitches."
Trayvon posed for one photo with raised middle fingers, another with wads of cash held in an out-stretched arm. One YouTube video shows him refereeing a fight club-style street fight. A cousin had recently tweeted him, "Yu ain't tell me yu swung on a bus driver," meaning, if true, that Trayvon had punched out a bus driver.

Zimmerman never saw the cute little boy that the TV audience did. He saw a full-grown man, a druggy, a wannabe street fighter, the tattooed, gold-grilled, self-dubbed "No_Limit_Nigga."
Media obfuscation may still work in the court of public opinion -- it got Obama elected in 2008 -- but it will not work in a court of law. The truth will out. When it does, the major media will lose a good chunk of whatever credibility they have left, and our nation may lose a good chunk of its urban real estate.

[Gilgamesh]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pla...qME#at=171
"A black life only has value when it's taken by someone who's not black."

[Tiberius]

This is just my opinion here, but honestly, if the police dispatcher tells you to NOT FOLLOW the person you're calling them about...then don't fucking follow them. Let the fucking cops handle it.

Again, the police dispatcher didn't tell Zimmerman not to follow Martin. The police dispatcher asked whether he was following him, and when Zimmerman confirmed that he was, the police dispatcher said "Ok, we don't need you to do that". That is very different.

Again, I must ask, if he thought he was confronting a person who was robbing peoples' homes, what the fuck did he expect was going to happen when he confronted the guy?? He CLAIMS the kid was looking into peoples' homes. He also said the kid was coming towards him, then turned and ran away after investigating him sitting in his car staring at him. And then he gives chase. He's not a fucking cop. He had no business pursuing the kid. You have to admit that much.

We can only go by pieced together versions of events, based mostly on phone calls.

According to Zimmerman, he stopped pursuing Treyvon after the police dispatcher said they didn't need him to, and was trying to find a place to meet police at when Treyvon attacked him. According to Rachel Jeantel, who was on the phone with Treyvon before he was shot, Treyvon asked Zimmerman why he was following him, and then Zimmerman attacked Treyvon. It should be noted that Rachel Jeantel's testimony was called into question by the defense, who pointed out that parts of it differed from her official deposition.

The fact is, with so little actual evidence of what happened, we can't conclude beyond reasonable doubt that Zimmerman is guilty of murder or manslaughter. We may not like that fact, but the justice system is supposed to work on the principle of innocent until proven guilty, and in this case, there was little to no evidence that Zimmerman was guilty of a crime.

I'm not saying you support the outcome in other cases, Tib, I'm saying that the ruling in this regard is bullshit because it's similar circumstances except the defendant was a woman who was being beaten by her husband, she DIDN'T shoot him to death, and yet somehow gets 20 years when this guy gets off scot-free. I'm just comparing what a level of bullshit this is between these two cases, and what the underlying problem is; we've got a weird set of double-standards at play. Some guy goes off and oversteps his bounds in his role in a community watch program, pursues a guy, starts getting the shit kicked out of him and somehow is justified for pulling the trigger when he started the situation to begin with, and then there's the thing with the woman. That's what I'm more pissed about than anything else; if this other woman was guilty, then THIS guy should DEFINITELY be guilty.

I disagree with that logic. We both agree that the woman should not have been convicted, so I'm confused as to why you would think that two miscarriages of justice would be better than one? A better conclusion to events should be:

This guy was found not guilty, so the woman should have been found not guilty too, and possibly should have her case re-tried.

I'm pissed about the justice system itself...or the lack of justice, anyway. This is ass-backwards as all fuck. THAT is why I am so pissed off, THAT is why these posts are so emotionally charged.

Good, be pissed off at the justice system all you want, but when we are talking about actual human beings, who have actual lives, getting emotionally charged is not a good idea. It leads you to make utterly appalling statements like:

"I'm a humanist and I want this guy to get shot."

"Beat him to death and string his body up underneath the ol' rebel flag. I wouldn't shed a single tear for him."

These aren't helping anyone. If you think the justice system is broken, help fix it. Don't make a mockery of it by resorting to mob rule.

[Creed of Heresy]

@Dionysus: THAT...is VERY interesting. I hadn't actually considered the possibility of it being *pukes* sizzurp components. Also, seriously, sizzurp? Ugh. WHY? WHY would anyone think that mixture is good? It even SOUNDS vile. "Sizzurp." Sounds like the sound you make when you sneeze and puke at the same time...

Although, I thought that the mixture used hard candies, not skittles, and that it required a carbonated beverage, and that arizona iced tea isn't carbonated. Then again I dunno shit about it other than what goes into it [and I only know that from hearing it before from that terrible "G6" song anyway].

I have to ask though. Why did he keep the drink and candy on his person if he'd dropped it off in the house? Rather strange choice.

Still. I managed to find the article on wikipedia. found the full transcript.

More and more I'm starting to doubt my original stance. This is starting to sound less and less like Trayvon was as innocent as the media portrays.

---

This is just my opinion here, but honestly, if the police dispatcher tells you to NOT FOLLOW the person you're calling them about...then don't fucking follow them. Let the fucking cops handle it.

Again, the police dispatcher didn't tell Zimmerman not to follow Martin. The police dispatcher asked whether he was following him, and when Zimmerman confirmed that he was, the police dispatcher said "Ok, we don't need you to do that". That is very different.

Again, I must ask, if he thought he was confronting a person who was robbing peoples' homes, what the fuck did he expect was going to happen when he confronted the guy?? He CLAIMS the kid was looking into peoples' homes. He also said the kid was coming towards him, then turned and ran away after investigating him sitting in his car staring at him. And then he gives chase. He's not a fucking cop. He had no business pursuing the kid. You have to admit that much.

We can only go by pieced together versions of events, based mostly on phone calls.

According to Zimmerman, he stopped pursuing Treyvon after the police dispatcher said they didn't need him to, and was trying to find a place to meet police at when Treyvon attacked him. According to Rachel Jeantel, who was on the phone with Treyvon before he was shot, Treyvon asked Zimmerman why he was following him, and then Zimmerman attacked Treyvon. It should be noted that Rachel Jeantel's testimony was called into question by the defense, who pointed out that parts of it differed from her official deposition.

The fact is, with so little actual evidence of what happened, we can't conclude beyond reasonable doubt that Zimmerman is guilty of murder or manslaughter. We may not like that fact, but the justice system is supposed to work on the principle of innocent until proven guilty, and in this case, there was little to no evidence that Zimmerman was guilty of a crime.

I'm not saying you support the outcome in other cases, Tib, I'm saying that the ruling in this regard is bullshit because it's similar circumstances except the defendant was a woman who was being beaten by her husband, she DIDN'T shoot him to death, and yet somehow gets 20 years when this guy gets off scot-free. I'm just comparing what a level of bullshit this is between these two cases, and what the underlying problem is; we've got a weird set of double-standards at play. Some guy goes off and oversteps his bounds in his role in a community watch program, pursues a guy, starts getting the shit kicked out of him and somehow is justified for pulling the trigger when he started the situation to begin with, and then there's the thing with the woman. That's what I'm more pissed about than anything else; if this other woman was guilty, then THIS guy should DEFINITELY be guilty.

I disagree with that logic. We both agree that the woman should not have been convicted, so I'm confused as to why you would think that two miscarriages of justice would be better than one? A better conclusion to events should be:

This guy was found not guilty, so the woman should have been found not guilty too, and possibly should have her case re-tried.

I'm pissed about the justice system itself...or the lack of justice, anyway. This is ass-backwards as all fuck. THAT is why I am so pissed off, THAT is why these posts are so emotionally charged.

Good, be pissed off at the justice system all you want, but when we are talking about actual human beings, who have actual lives, getting emotionally charged is not a good idea. It leads you to make utterly appalling statements like:

"I'm a humanist and I want this guy to get shot."

"Beat him to death and string his body up underneath the ol' rebel flag. I wouldn't shed a single tear for him."

These aren't helping anyone. If you think the justice system is broken, help fix it. Don't make a mockery of it by resorting to mob rule.

Yeah, I'm starting to come to the conclusion that I seriously need to redact my original statement. My initial information was inaccurate, and the later bits of information I got were watered down with pandering from the media and I bought into it.

I'm a big enough man to admit when I'm wrong. This was certainly one instance where I was very, very wrong.

[orogenicman]

Zimmerman shoots a kid to death without firing any warning shots of his own...gets off scot-free.

I curious if you believe Zimmerman had a responsibility to fire warning shots at someone sitting on his chest punching him in the face?

Why would he do that? According to legal precedent, and Florida law, he could have gotten 20 years for firing warning shots. But hey, if he shoots his gun and someone dies, he can walk.

[Tiberius]

More and more I'm starting to doubt my original stance. This is starting to sound less and less like Trayvon was as innocent as the media portrays.

I've spent a long time in various reddit threads about the case over the last two days. The general consensus (there at least) is that the media decided Zimmerman was guilty from the start, and purposefully either edited evidence (NBC edited Zimmerman's phone call to police) or left it out entirely, all to keep the story going.

Both Treyvon and Zimmerman lost their lives in this incident. Treyvon via a bullet, and Zimmerman via the public effectively forcing him into hiding. The media was the only winner; they got the long drawn-out story they were after.

[Creed of Heresy]

Trust the media to be untrustworthy. *shakes his head*

Ugh. Now I feel like absolute shit for what I said earlier.

That feels when you realize you got duped by the media...the same thing everyone's been saying for years is biased, sensationalist bullshit, and you yourself have stated is exactly that.