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RE: Zimmerman verdict: Not Guilty.
July 15, 2013 at 10:56 am
(July 15, 2013 at 9:40 am)Rahul Wrote: (July 14, 2013 at 5:26 pm)Creed of Heresy Wrote: Ahh yes, of course, it's perfectly acceptable that the punishment for over-reacting should be the termination of your life.
I sometimes think you're an idiot. This is one of those times.
You only sometimes think I'm an idiot? Fuck, I always think I'm an idiot. Thanks for being charitable.
You don't have an issue with what happened. What you have an issue with is reality. Real life isn't fair. We can agree on that.
Is it fair that Trayvon is dead? Fuck no, it isn't.
Should we offer up Zimmerman as a sacrifice for the fact that life isn't fair? Fuck no, we shouldn't.
Don't be a retard.
Did you catch the part where the officer said Zimmerman reacted in a shocked manner when they told him Trayvon was dead? Zimmerman wasn't shooting to kill. He didn't intend to kill the kid. He just wanted the kid to quit attacking him.
If you attack me and I have a gun on me I'm going to shoot your ass too. Consequences be damned.
The local law enforcement that initially investigated the incident agree with me. That no crime was committed. The jury also agree with me, that Zimmerman did not break the law.
So who's being the idiot here? I believe Creed has changed his position on this after taking another look at the evidence...
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RE: Zimmerman verdict: Not Guilty.
July 15, 2013 at 11:20 am
(July 15, 2013 at 10:56 am)A Theist Wrote: I believe Creed has changed his position on this after taking another look at the evidence...
Oh. Sorry. I didn't read the rest of the thread.
Thanks.
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RE: Zimmerman verdict: Not Guilty.
July 15, 2013 at 1:39 pm
(This post was last modified: July 15, 2013 at 2:00 pm by AthiestAtheist.)
(July 14, 2013 at 8:42 am)Tiberius Wrote: There are numerous transcripts available online.
The actual words were "We don't need you to do that." He might not have given an "order", but Zimmerman definitely defied police instruction. You're really playing semantics here.
(July 14, 2013 at 7:57 am)A Theist Wrote: Wow...you guys are pretty violent to be so ardently against violence...with violent people like you roaming about and screaming for mob justice it's no wonder law abiding citizens need to arm themselves for protection...
So mob justice is bad, but vigilantism is fine?
(July 15, 2013 at 9:20 am)Tiberius Wrote: This would hold more weight if it weren't for the facts that his face was bloodied when the police arrived, as was the back of his head, and his hands did not appear to have any injuries. All that points towards him being attacked and having to defend himself, rather than him being the attacker. The only thing that proves is that Zimmerman was loosing the fight.
(July 15, 2013 at 9:20 am)Tiberius Wrote: There was also the eye-witness who phoned the police and reported that the darker skinned man was on top of the lighter skinned man, beating him.
http://dailycaller.com/2013/06/28/eyewit...-struggle/ That doesn't say anything about who started the fight.
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RE: Zimmerman verdict: Not Guilty.
July 15, 2013 at 2:00 pm
(July 15, 2013 at 1:39 pm)AthiestAtheist Wrote: (July 14, 2013 at 8:42 am)Tiberius Wrote: There are numerous transcripts available online.
The actual words were "We don't need you to do that." He might not have given an "order", but Zimmerman definitely defied police instruction. You're really playing semantics here.
(July 14, 2013 at 7:57 am)A Theist Wrote: Wow...you guys are pretty violent to be so ardently against violence...with violent people like you roaming about and screaming for mob justice it's no wonder law abiding citizens need to arm themselves for protection...
So mob justice is bad, but vigilantism is fine? Mob vigilantism is wrong...the evidence presented in the Zimmerman trial proved that he shot in self defense and the jury found him not guilty of neither second degree murder or manslaughter.
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Quote:It was an awful mistake to characterize based upon religion. I should not judge any theist that way, I must remember what I said in order to change.
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RE: Zimmerman verdict: Not Guilty.
July 15, 2013 at 2:04 pm
(July 15, 2013 at 2:00 pm)A Theist Wrote: Mob vigilantism is wrong...the evidence presented in the Zimmerman trial proved that he shot in self defense and the jury found him not guilty of neither second degree murder or manslaughter.
And, as we all know, courts, jurors and judges are infallible.
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RE: Zimmerman verdict: Not Guilty.
July 15, 2013 at 2:19 pm
(This post was last modified: July 15, 2013 at 2:27 pm by AthiestAtheist.)
(July 15, 2013 at 2:00 pm)A Theist Wrote: Mob vigilantism is wrong...the evidence presented in the Zimmerman trial proved that he shot in self defense and the jury found him not guilty of neither second degree murder or manslaughter. ...But regular vigilantism is fine? The evidence presented in the trial proved that Zimmerman pursued and killed Trayvon Martin. Zimmerman's self-defense was just a story that was not backed up by any evidence. Trayvon might have been winning the fight, but the evidence supports that Zimmerman attacked, and Trayvon was defending himself. Even if Trayvon attacked first, that doesn't give Zimmerman the right to murder him because Zimmerman was the one pursuing him with a gun!
(July 14, 2013 at 8:23 pm)Tiberius Wrote: I think the main reason that was pointed out is that the media were painting Treyvon as some innocent kid who could never hurt a fly. In reality, he was an active drug user, had received three suspensions from school that year, and was found with a quantity of women's jewelry in his bag, along with a screwdriver that the school police investigator thought was a burglary tool.
Martin was also taller than Zimmerman by several inches, and had a healthy weight for his age / height. Zimmerman on the other hand was overweight and out of shape. What Trayvon was (or might have been) before the incident is irrelevant. About 70% of America is on prescription drugs, and it's not like Trayvon was on crack and killed Zimmerman for crack money. Trayvon did not deserve to be killed for hypothetical burglary. What really counts is that Trayvon wasn't doing anything wrong when he was followed, and was not doing anything wrong when he was killed.
"Sisters, you know only the north; I have traveled in the south lands. There are churches there, believe me, that cut their children too, as the people of Bolvangar did--not in the same way, but just as horribly. They cut their sexual organs, yes, both boys and girls; they cut them with knives so that they shan't feel. That is what the Church does, and every church is the same: control, destroy, obliterate every good feeling. So if a war comes, and the Church is on one side of it, we must be on the other, no matter what strange allies we find ourselves bound to."
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RE: Zimmerman verdict: Not Guilty.
July 15, 2013 at 2:33 pm
(July 15, 2013 at 2:19 pm)AthiestAtheist Wrote: What really counts is that Trayvon wasn't doing anything wrong when he was followed, and was not doing anything wrong when he was killed.
Beating someone's head against the sidewalk isn't wrong?
Hold on. I have to go see a couple fuckers I know.
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RE: Zimmerman verdict: Not Guilty.
July 15, 2013 at 3:08 pm
(July 15, 2013 at 2:04 pm)TheStateIsALie Wrote: (July 15, 2013 at 2:00 pm)A Theist Wrote: Mob vigilantism is wrong...the evidence presented in the Zimmerman trial proved that he shot in self defense and the jury found him not guilty of neither second degree murder or manslaughter.
And, as we all know, courts, jurors and judges are infallible.
No, but it sure beats the mob mentality presented in this thread.
Get a fucking grip, people.
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RE: Zimmerman verdict: Not Guilty.
July 15, 2013 at 3:47 pm
(July 15, 2013 at 1:39 pm)AthiestAtheist Wrote: He might not have given an "order", but Zimmerman definitely defied police instruction. You're really playing semantics here. Again, read the actual evidence of the case. The police dispatcher testified that as a matter of policy, they do not give out orders. Someone also mentioned here that the person on the other end of the phone isn't actually a police officer, and so has no ability to issue orders or even demand someone follow instructions.
I'm not the one playing semantics at all. "We don't need you to do that." is in no way an order, nor it is even an instruction. At most, it is a suggestion, though a very passive one at that. Additionally, there is evidence to suggest Zimmerman did stop following Treyvon, as I've pointed out before. In the call to the police dispatcher, Zimmerman states that he lost sight of Treyvon, and he also states "Ok" to the police dispatcher after they say "We don't need you to do that." Go listen to the tapes again; I'm not making this up.
Quote:The only thing that proves is that Zimmerman was loosing the fight.
Agreed. Other evidence suggests he was getting beaten pretty badly, including the eye-witness testimony. If Zimmerman was in that position, it would have been perfectly reasonable for him to think his life was in danger, and therefore reaching for his gun and firing it at his attacker was an act of self-defense that happened out of fear.
(July 15, 2013 at 9:20 am)Tiberius Wrote: That doesn't say anything about who started the fight. Agreed, but the phone call transcript shows that Zimmerman had lost sight of Treyvon, and might have stopped following him (which given the distance between his car and the fight scene, is possible). The only evidence that the prosecution had to suggest that Zimmerman started the fight was the testimony of the girl Treyvon was on the phone to at the time. The girl's testimony was exposed by the defense as flimsy at best, since she changed her story from what she had put in her deposition without good reason.
The fact that Zimmerman seemed to have no injuries suggesting he was the attacker (i.e. no marks on his hands) adds to the evidence against Treyvon.
I'm not saying that we can conclusively say what happened either way, and that is the point here. The justice system is supposed to be innocent until proven guilty, and guilty beyond reasonable doubt. There was enough reasonable doubt about the version of events as depicted by the media and Treyvon's friend to find Zimmerman not guilty of murder and manslaughter.
(July 15, 2013 at 2:19 pm)AthiestAtheist Wrote: ...But regular vigilantism is fine? The evidence presented in the trial proved that Zimmerman pursued and killed Trayvon Martin. Zimmerman's self-defense was just a story that was not backed up by any evidence. Trayvon might have been winning the fight, but the evidence supports that Zimmerman attacked, and Trayvon was defending himself. Even if Trayvon attacked first, that doesn't give Zimmerman the right to murder him because Zimmerman was the one pursuing him with a gun!
Like I said before. Go look at the evidence again, and not evidence as presented by the media, but rather the cold hard facts of the case. There was absolutely no evidence to suggest that Zimmerman was "pursuing him with a gun", which makes it sound like Zimmerman had the gun out at the ready. Zimmerman had a license to carry, and as far as anyone knows, the gun was still safely in its holster when the fight broke out. The gun was out of the picture right up until the moment Zimmerman used it.
Quote:What Trayvon was (or might have been) before the incident is irrelevant. About 70% of America is on prescription drugs, and it's not like Trayvon was on crack and killed Zimmerman for crack money. Trayvon did not deserve to be killed for hypothetical burglary. What really counts is that Trayvon wasn't doing anything wrong when he was followed, and was not doing anything wrong when he was killed.
The point about Treyvon's past is that it paints an entirely different picture of him to the innocent boy that the media displayed him as. Nobody is arguing that Treyvon deserved to be killed for a hypothetical burglary, but given his less than innocent past, and the fact that there had been burglaries with reports of a person who matched Treyvon's description in the area, it isn't surprising Zimmerman reported him to the police and possibly followed him to see where he was going.
I agree, Treyvon wasn't doing anything wrong that evening, as far as evidence can tell. However, for whatever reason, he attacked Zimmerman and started to beat the guy up, which is very very wrong in my book, so I take major issues with your last statement.
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RE: Zimmerman verdict: Not Guilty.
July 15, 2013 at 6:42 pm
(July 15, 2013 at 9:40 am)Rahul Wrote: (July 14, 2013 at 5:26 pm)Creed of Heresy Wrote: Ahh yes, of course, it's perfectly acceptable that the punishment for over-reacting should be the termination of your life.
I sometimes think you're an idiot. This is one of those times.
You only sometimes think I'm an idiot? Fuck, I always think I'm an idiot. Thanks for being charitable.
You don't have an issue with what happened. What you have an issue with is reality. Real life isn't fair. We can agree on that.
Is it fair that Trayvon is dead? Fuck no, it isn't.
Should we offer up Zimmerman as a sacrifice for the fact that life isn't fair? Fuck no, we shouldn't.
Don't be a retard.
Did you catch the part where the officer said Zimmerman reacted in a shocked manner when they told him Trayvon was dead? Zimmerman wasn't shooting to kill. He didn't intend to kill the kid. He just wanted the kid to quit attacking him.
If you attack me and I have a gun on me I'm going to shoot your ass too. Consequences be damned.
The local law enforcement that initially investigated the incident agree with me. That no crime was committed. The jury also agree with me, that Zimmerman did not break the law.
So who's being the idiot here?
Ya shoulda kept reading the thread. You'd've seen my admission of idiocy around page 10 or so. 
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