Atheist on Mormonism

[Cholley71]

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Atheist On Mormonism Part 2: Joseph Smith

Joseph Smith jr. who was born in 1805 and he is the founder of Mormonism. Through talking to angels in the forest he put together the Book of Mormon. And the tale of Martin Harris and his Wife Lucy Harris is a dead giveaway that Mormonism is a hoax like every other religion. It just that the founders of Mormonism weren't very good at putting together a religious book and it easy to see that. Now back to Joseph Smith who was seeing a treasure or a grown man who likes to be a pirate. Joseph Smith needed someone to fundraise his religion. And he met Martin Harris who was a wealthy man. And he was married to Lucy Harris who in the book of Mormon is the only person who seems to have some sort of reasoning capacity. Lucy Harris tried to see if Smith would reveal the Golden plates to her and Joseph Smith is quoted on saying "in relation to assistance, I always prefer dealing with men rather than their wives." So she asked her husband to get the original 116 pages and she purposely said she lost them to see if Smith wasn't blowing hot smoke and when Mr. Harris went back to Joseph Smith to tell him what had happened. Joseph Smith got angry and said God doesn't want him re translating what was already written and that we are going make a new translation and Martin Harris idiotically believed him. Now as person with more then two brain cells how can one not see that Joseph Smith is blatantly lying.

[Minimalist]

Where the hell is Peter when you need him?

[Captain Colostomy]

Where the hell is Peter when you need him?

LOL!

He got banned for tooting his horn, how apropo.

[Clueless Morgan]

I'm currently listening to The Complete Heretic's Guide to Western Religion: The Mormons by David Fitzgerald and am thoroughly enjoying it (well, except for the chapter on Polygamy, that was incredibly depressing and angering).

What I am currently finding interesting is the similarities between the social/cultural conditions surrounding the founding of Mormonism and the social/cultural conditions surrounding the founding of "mainstream" Christianity, i.e. the Jesus story.

In both cases, as I understand it, you have a sort of religious craze taking place: in upstate New York it was referred to as the Burned Out district during the time of the Second Great Awakening because so many new religions/cults were being formed and dying out, in ancient Palestine it was the Hellenistic and/or Messianic religions that were popping up all over the place. In both cases proponents of the "surviving" religion (Christianity in the case of ancient Palestine and Mormonism in the case of the Burned Out district) at least to some extent claim that theirs is the true religion because it "survived" - in other words the very fact that those religions survived is some kind of testament to its truthiness. In the case of Mormonism, however, they cannot claim exclusive rights to truthiness based on the fact that it survived the Burned Out district or the Second Great Awakening because the Seventh Day Adventists also came from that same time, born of similar circumstances having survived to today from its formation as the Millerite movement.

Anyway, that's my thought for the day. I shall now commence the long wait until the weekend.

[NoraBrimstone]

Lucy Harris smart smart smart, Martin Harris dumb.

[Bad Writer]

Nice of you to drop by the forums, and it makes an ex-Mormon proud to see people spotting the bullshit in the LDS Church history. However, as someone who loves getting the facts straight, I'm going to have to go through your post and correct a few mistakes. Well...actually my Mormon counterpart Peter will

:Channels PeterPriesthood:

Peter here, reporting for duty!

Through talking to angels in the forest he put together the Book of Mormon.

Time out. First of all, it was just one Angel, and his name was Moroni. He first appeared to Joseph Smith Jr. in the man's bedroom (even though he shared the room with all his siblings, so don't ask me how they didn't see the angel too). The forest experience you're talking about occurred when he was 14, and in the forest he prayed and received a visit from God and Jesus Christ, telling him not to join any of the current churches. This is known as "The First Vision". Events culminated in him learning of his calling as Prophet, being visited by Moroni, and eventually digging up ancient Golden Plates written in Reformed Egyptian (a mixture of Semetic alphabets and Egyptian Hieroglyphs, according to Mormon scholars). So he did not "put together the Book of Mormon"...rather he looked in a hat, saw the English translation of the goofy ancient language, and had his scribe Martin Harris write it down. Wait...what? So that means he DID put the Book of Mormon together? Well I'll be...

And the tale of Martin Harris and his Wife Lucy Harris is a dead giveaway that Mormonism is a hoax like every other religion.

I'll bite. Why is this?

It just that the founders of Mormonism weren't very good at putting together a religious book and it easy to see that.

Is this religious book the Book of Mormon? A book that portrays a history that spans nearly 1000 years of Jews living in America, living as White Christians before the birth of Jesus in the Middle-East? A book written in 17th century language but published in the 19th century? A book that renowned author Mark Twain mentioned in a quote as being "chloroform in print"?

Hogwash. It's all true, I tell you. Joseph Smith himself said that there is no other book under heaven that's as perfect as this one. If there be any mistakes in them, then they are made by men...which makes it a little less than perfect. Oh stop yer whinin'!

Now back to Joseph Smith who was seeing a treasure or a grown man who likes to be a pirate. Joseph Smith needed someone to fundraise his religion.

I wondered what people did before Kickstarter! Wait, did you say "pirate"?
Even Joseph Smith Talked Like a Pirate

And he met Martin Harris who was a wealthy man. And he was married to Lucy Harris who in the book of Mormon is the only person who seems to have some sort of reasoning capacity.

Ahem.

Ah yes. Lucy Harris is not in the Book of Mormon. I knew this one sounded fishy. But there is a volume called "History of the Church" that she is featured in, so I can see that there might be reason for confusion.

If by "reasoning capacity" you meant "led by Satan", then you're absolutely right about her. She's the reason that the Book of Mormon is missing the first 116 pages, a part known as "The Book of Lehi". However, Lehi's son, Nephi, conveniently wrote the history a second time, this time in lesser detail, and filed it away with the rest of the compilation of records that Mormon later unearthed and abridged into the Book of Mormon.

This means Mormon also put the story in there twice. Why? Well, he himself didn't know, but he knew that God had his reasons. The reason was that Lucy would lose the first 116 pages! Yeah!

Lucy Harris tried to see if Smith would reveal the Golden plates to her and Joseph Smith is quoted on saying "in relation to assistance, I always prefer dealing with men rather than their wives."

But he didn't mind dealing with his own wife. This must also be why he got many more for himself in later years.

So [Lucy] asked her husband to get the original 116 pages and she purposely said she lost them to see if Smith wasn't blowing hot smoke and when Mr. Harris went back to Joseph Smith to tell him what had happened. Joseph Smith got angry and said God doesn't want him re translating what was already written and that we are going make a new translation and Martin Harris idiotically believed him.

No way! Martin wasn't an idiot. He was a dork, sure, but he was using faith here, not dim wits!

This is where the non-Mormon community and the Mormon Church differ on their interpretations of the events that transpired. Yes, Lucy wanted to test Joseph to see if he could re-translate those pages word for word to see if his gift really was legit. Joseph gets angry, but then he prays about it. His answer was that he was not supposed to re-translate for fear of evil men taking those pages and changing the words to make it look like Joseph was a fraud.

Luckily, good ol' Mormon had put Nephi's own history of his people in the Golden Plates alongside the other history, so none of the Book of Mormon's content was actually lost when Joseph started the translation process again. Even if the 116 pages resurfaced, comparing the words would prove fruitless, as the plan God set in motion over 1000 years early was working. Lucy and her partner Lucifer were foiled!

Now as person with more then two brain cells how can one not see that Joseph Smith is blatantly lying.

Blatantly, or surreptitiously? Either way, there's no way to prove that he did or didn't make it up, since his story is foolproof, see?

:Ends channeling:

Whew, Peter takes a lot out of me. Yes, Joseph Smith was obviously lying, but the craziest thing is that not only do Mormons believe the lie, they teach it the way Peter talks about it above (more or less). Their response? "God knew the 116 pages were going to be lost, so he told Mormon to put Nephi's history in there too, and now we don't even need Lehi's account." This is an awful lot of crazy, special pleading, and you have to be either batshit crazy or raised in it in order to take it at face value.