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RE: No verifiable evidence is the Christian position
August 16, 2013 at 6:13 pm
(This post was last modified: August 16, 2013 at 6:14 pm by Undeceived.)
(August 16, 2013 at 4:30 pm)oukoida Wrote: This is where your argument from ignorance comes in: since there are such "aberrant events" we cannot explain we can resort to the supernatural as an explanation. Nope. What makes the supernatural a last "resort"? Are you saying that everything should be considered natural until proven supernatural? If so, why?
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RE: No verifiable evidence is the Christian position
August 16, 2013 at 6:51 pm
Because then you're not telling people things that could very well be lies.
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RE: No verifiable evidence is the Christian position
August 16, 2013 at 7:11 pm
Why isn't "proven supernatural" an oxymoron?
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RE: No verifiable evidence is the Christian position
August 16, 2013 at 7:18 pm
(This post was last modified: August 16, 2013 at 7:19 pm by Simon Moon.)
(August 16, 2013 at 6:13 pm)Undeceived Wrote: What makes the supernatural a last "resort"? Are you saying that everything should be considered natural until proven supernatural? If so, why?
Are you serious?
Of course a natural explanation is always be considered the most likely. Reasons?
1. The natural can be proven to exist.
2. Whenever there has been an unknown that gets explained in a verifiable, demonstrable way, has the explanation ever been the supernatural?
3. The supernatural explains a mystery by appealing to an even bigger mystery.
4. The supernatural actually offers no explanatory or predictive power.
5. Every culture and religion in the world has different supernatural beliefs to explain the same type of events. Most are mutually exclusive with all the others, and there's no method to find out if any of them are correct.
And when a natural explanation for something is currently unknown, that does not mean that a supernatural explanation becomes more likely by default.
You'd believe if you just opened your heart" is a terrible argument for religion. It's basically saying, "If you bias yourself enough, you can convince yourself that this is true." If religion were true, people wouldn't need faith to believe it -- it would be supported by good evidence.
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RE: No verifiable evidence is the Christian position
August 16, 2013 at 7:21 pm
(August 16, 2013 at 7:11 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: Why isn't "proven supernatural" an oxymoron?
Because your brothers in Christ have enough trouble just trying to pronounce 'proven'...or even understanding it's relevance?
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RE: No verifiable evidence is the Christian position
August 16, 2013 at 7:49 pm
(August 16, 2013 at 12:12 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: I haven't turned bitter at all FNM. And I've replied to anything relevant you've said, patiently trying to point out again and again the basic point, which you still seem completely unable to grasp.
I wish I could believe this, but when I found you bluntly contradicting yourself on something that is mutually exclusive, well.. I don't think *I'm* the problem by that stage. Clearly you haven't thought this out very well, and my impression is that you act as if I can't keep up, but your shaky posts tell a different story.
What would really help though, is for you to properly respond to my posts. That way I know exactly what you agree on and disagree on.
Quote:You, as a person that doesn't believe that there are any supernatural agents, can say that they don't act at all. Perfect. I agree, and you support the OP.
How can I possibly be supporting the OP if I don't think your god exists? That's just nonsensical. And the fact that I can say "supernatural agents don't act" is due to my ability to be able to assume the other person's belief:
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it" ~ Aristotle
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it" ~ Aristotle
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RE: No verifiable evidence is the Christian position
August 16, 2013 at 8:56 pm
(August 16, 2013 at 6:00 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: You guys just need an identity dammit! 
What would a Christian know about identity? 
Even if the open windows of science at first make us shiver after the cozy indoor warmth of traditional humanizing myths, in the end the fresh air brings vigor, and the great spaces have a splendor of their own - Bertrand Russell
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RE: No verifiable evidence is the Christian position
August 17, 2013 at 4:33 am
(This post was last modified: August 17, 2013 at 4:35 am by fr0d0.)
FTR
The only way I contradict myself is if you have a problem with comprehension. I've repeated again and again, and it says in the thread title my position. Somehow, incredibly, you don't get this. I surmise that you're trolling here.
What haven't I responded to?
What has the OP got to do with belief in God? Let me educate you: the subject is that no verifiable proof is the Christian position. You state that "supernatural agents don't act" from your position of disbelief. How can you say this? Answer: because there can be no verifiable proof. You are supporting the Christian position that there can't be verifiable proof. Do I need a sledge hammer to drive this point home?
As for you empathy, you just don't get that as Christians, we accept supernatural explanation over natural ones. BECAUSE There is meaning to the supernatural event. The event proves God/ is evidence of God interacting in the world.
We don't think that Jesus was deceiving anyone, Mr empathy, we believe he actually performed miracles/ that these were supernatural acts. We also KNOW that every one of these acts could be interpreted as having natural cause TO AN UNBELIEVER, because that's the way it has to be, if there couldn't be verifiable proof of the supernatural/ if Christian faith made sense.
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RE: No verifiable evidence is the Christian position
August 17, 2013 at 4:49 am
Frodo, how could you possibly be happy, intellectually, with having to hold such a position?
"YOU take the hard look in the mirror. You are everything that is wrong with this world. The only thing important to you, is you." - ronedee
Want to see more of my writing? Check out my (safe for work!) site, Unprotected Sects!
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RE: No verifiable evidence is the Christian position
August 17, 2013 at 5:01 am
(August 17, 2013 at 4:49 am)Esquilax Wrote: Frodo, how could you possibly be happy, intellectually, with having to hold such a position?
I too have the same feeling, he is so close to being one of us. 
You can fix ignorance, you can't fix stupid.
Tinkety Tonk and down with the Nazis.
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