Hell

[fr0d0]

So are you happy or unhappy with nature then Evie? Sounds like you are very unhappy - or are you only applying your dissatisfaction with the notion of the involvement of God?

[AngelaRachnid]

I have no reason to think that a perfect God would make this world any different

Does that include making the Ichneumonidae? What sort of de arranged, psychotic, twisted sick fuckbrain would want to knowingly create a life form that lays its eggs inside another life form, so that when the eggs hatch the larvae slowly eat the host life form alive from the inside leaving the most important organs till last?

Perfect god? perfectly sick

A

[Edwardo Piet]

So are you happy or unhappy with nature then Evie? Sounds like you are very unhappy - or are you only applying your dissatisfaction with the notion of the involvement of God?

I'm not happy or unhappy "with" nature, I don't see how I can get annoyed with nature itself...

No, I am hypothesising that if God exists, then how exactly can he be perfect considering all the far from perfect horror that goes on in the world?

I myself am happy, yes lots of stuff that goes on in the world certainly is horrible... but getting annoyed about it does no good in and of itself. I just hope whoever can do what they can to help the matter, does.

EvF

[fr0d0]

So if God created nature that makes you unhappy with him: You can't blame nature because it just 'is'. Adding a creator of nature you have wrongs to account for.

You criticise this reality based on the cruelty we perceive as inhumane. I find it incredible you should be so egotistical you think human feelings rate at all in the grand scheme of things. Like the Adam's puddle you think this existence was created for you. The sun will rise and you'll evaporate.

[Edwardo Piet]

I personally think it's ridiculous that you can somehow argue that 'God's understanding of morality transcends petty human understanding'... because why would a supreme God create such petty humans that can't understand morality like he can, and who do such almost unspeakable things in places over the world?

So you see immorality and imperfection in a world that was supposedly perfectly made (he didn't do an at all shabby job) by God, and you explain that all away by saying that he understands it in ways we don't?

Sure, I would imagine a perfect being's understanding would transcend ours , but what makes you think that it's so plausible that this is 'all part of his plan'. and that he would really allow such bullshit to go on in the world he supposedly perfectly created... if he really is so perfect, so divine, and so compassionate?

This is just my views on the implausibility in my eyes, by how God, if he exists, can in any way be good by what we mean when we say good. If it transcends our understanding then surely it must transcend our definition? Because the way the world is certainly doesn't match the definition... it's not "perfect" or "nice" for the world to be exactly how it is, it would be better if it is better.

Sure maybe he's "good" 'in ways we don't understand', but then that's not what we mean by "good" is it?...

... how is God, if he exists, "good" considering the state of the world, if "Good" is to be used by what we - generally - mean when we say good? How is this loving, compassionate, perfect, divine work by a God? If it transcends all those things, then how does it match our definitions of them? And if it doesn't match the definitions, why believe God is "Good" in the first place? He could be anything...

P.S: I don't claim to know anything here of course, this is all done by me hypothesising and looking at things through what I understand to be "good" or "bad", and others must do the same because it is by definition the only way that we can know what is "good" or "bad"...so to say God simply transcends them... how do we know that what he is is at all "good" then, if he can't fit our labels at all?

EvF

[fr0d0]

So you see immorality and imperfection in a world that was supposedly perfectly made (he didn't do an at all shabby job) by God, and you explain that all away by saying that he understands it in ways we don't?

I don't say we can't understand it, I just say it's understandable without a human perspective. With the horrible things (humanly perceived) does nature/ physics work horribly for you? If they don't, then surely you are saying it's perfection in your eyes too? I don't see the separation of God and physics like you do.

[Edwardo Piet]

Physics can be tested. It's actually within the realms of science.

It can only be understood from our human perspective, because we are the humans understanding it. And how can the assertion that God is apparently perfect, be tested? It cannot... right?

EvF

[fr0d0]

You didn't answer the question.

[Edwardo Piet]

Actually I thought I already answered that elsewhere?

Nature/physics is not something I can be mad at. As I have said, it makes no sense to me to be annoyed at nature itself.

I can't say objectively that it works horribly. I'd say in my own personal view that there are some nasty things in nature, and some nice things. There's a lot of horror for sure, and I'd call that far from "Perfect".

EvF

[fr0d0]

So what _would_ you call it? Are you awed by it? Does it amaze you?