What if Jesus had failed?

[Sword of Christ]

Yes, that would be the logical and sane thing to do.

Really? Seems a like a odd thing to believe. What properties do you think makes the Earth unique in the universe compared to all the other trillions of planets?

[Foxaèr]

What properties do you think makes the Earth unique in the universe compared to all the other trillions of planets?

Irrelevant to the question of whether or not aliens are real.

[Minimalist]

A UFO is an unidentified flying object, unidentified flying objects apparently do fly around from time to time. I don't actually know what they are myself.

Of course you know. They are unidentified flying objects
(except for the ones that turn out to be cars driving on a roadway at night above the observer.)

The Aliens crowd...as big a bunch of fuckheads as the jesus freaks...will admit that "95% of UFOs have natural explanations" They then make the silly jump by saying "if only 1% of the remainder cannot be explained....." and let their voices trail off so that the listener is left with only the possibility that these must be little green men from Mars.

Well, the math suggests that if 95% have natural explanations so does the other 5%...such explanations have simply not been determined.

And even with that, the Aliens crowd is believable compared to the god stories that theists trot out at the drop of a hat.

[Sword of Christ]

Irrelevant to the question of whether or not aliens are real.

It's seems like a somewhat safe bet to say they are real even if you can't know for certain. Kind of like God is a safe bet an all, yes.

[Ryantology]

I am an agnostic regarding aliens. It is certainly acceptable to suggest that we are not alone in the universe if for no reason other than the scale of the universe is so vast that the lucky accident which is life is conceivably reproducible. It requires no suspension of disbelief, unlike magical sky daddies who create vast universes yet have nothing better to do than indulge in an insane obsession with the sexual practices of the insignificant life forms it invented.

[Foxaèr]

It's seems like a somewhat safe bet to say they are real even if you can't know for certain. Kind of like God is a safe bet an all, yes.

No. I am just as much an atheist in terms of extraterrestrial life as I am with a religious deity.

[Sword of Christ]

Of course you know. They are unidentified flying objects
(except for the ones that turn out to be cars driving on a roadway at night above the observer.)

Yep, objects that as of scientifically have no scientific explanation. We can explain 95% of the sightings however.

The Aliens crowd...as big a bunch of fuckheads as the jesus freaks...will admit that "95% of UFOs have natural explanations" They then make the silly jump by saying "if only 1% of the remainder cannot be explained....." and let their voices trail off so that the listener is left with only the possibility that these must be little green men from Mars.

There are other possible explanations, they could be time travelers, people from a parallel universe, fairies. Could be anything really. If you want my opinion I think they are extraterrestrial deep space probes manned by some kind of AI. It's the kind of thing we would do if we had the technology and there were some interesting primitive cultures on other worlds. It's the kind of thing we sort of do on Earth when it comes to these uncontacted tribes of Indians.



We're at the stage where we don't want particularly want to interfere with them. But we are interested in having a look at em.

And even with that, the Aliens crowd is believable compared to the god stories that theists trot out at the drop of a hat.

I'd say God very believable once you look at the evidence. We can disagree though.

[Godscreated]

What I am asking is what would have been the consequences if Jesus, as god himself or his son, had not successfully completed his mission? In essence I am wondering if it was possible for him to fail. Was the whole thing just a sham? A display put on for the dubious 'benefit' of mankind? Drich seems to lean that way with his initial post, then backed out a bit by admitting that he believes that the physical sacrifice was necessary.

God sent His Son to redeem all of mankind, Jesus as God came of His own choice, laying down all His powers and His heavenly position to be a man able to be tempted and tested. Was He vulnerable to be tempted into sin, could be. I believe He was no more vulnerable to failure than a perfect lamb born and used for a sacrifice. The lamb was born perfectly fit and flawless to be acceptable as a sacrifice, Christ is compared to that lamb because He was born as the perfect man, as one who couldn't fail, the perfect sacrifice. So perfect was He as a sacrifice He put an end to all sacrifice. I do not know if this makes sense to you or not, but Christ as a man was spiritually perfect for sacrifice as the lamb that was born physically perfect for sacrifice, the lamb had no blemish and Christ had no sin, both were born to this. The lamb couldn't fail and neither could Christ.

I don't see where god needed any sort of ritual in order to forgive sin. He is not limited from taking any action he pleases. In the second chapter of the gospel of Mark, Jesus forgives a man his sins based on the man's faith and not on any actions taken by the man, or on his behalf. When the pharisees are outraged by this, Jesus cures the man of paralysis as a way of showing that he has the authority to forgive sin without any action on the part of the sinner.

You're wrong about the paralytic, it was not his faith that caused Jesus to forgive his sin, it was the faith of the four men who let the paralytic down through the roof. Jesus did heal the paralytic to show the pharisees that His authority and His power came from the Father, they knew only God could perform this miracle. Jesus did forgive the paralytic his sin and it was done on behalf of others, just as the Father forgives our sin on behalf of Jesus. As the man did nothing for His forgiveness, we do nothing for ours, Christ did it all. We are forgiven by promise through grace.

Therefore, taking on a human form in order to provide a sacrifice was either a monumental risk, or none at all. What if Jesus had dropped to his knees and worshiped Satan, as the Devil requested? Would god have died? Would the universe have blinked out of existence? Would he have simply wiped the slate clean and moved on? Or was it all for show, because it was effectively impossible for him to fail?

There was no risk, however it was not for show, it was necessary to show how much God loves us. Christ also came to teach the new covenant, to say that Jesus was here for show, would be comparable to saying a teacher is before a class just for show.

GC

[Ryantology]

As the man did nothing for His forgiveness, we do nothing for ours, Christ did it all.

Awesome. So I don't have to waste time believing in him and worshiping him.

Or, wait, we DO have to do something for our forgiveness. But, there are no contradictions in the Bible, right?

[Crossless2.0]

Irrelevant to the question of whether or not aliens are real.

It's seems like a somewhat safe bet to say they are real even if you can't know for certain. Kind of like God is a safe bet an all, yes.

No, the safe bet is to say, "I don't know and remain un-persuaded until good evidence is presented." Outside of religious circles and other groups on the lunatic fringe, this is usually understood as simple, decent honesty.

For me, the "safe bet" is to never flush my intellectual integrity down the toilet at the first sign of the unknown. It's a shame you think otherwise.