Lingvogeometry

[genkaus]

It is not my ideas.
All Americans use strong linguistic cliché: “Holy shit” and “Holy crap”. Ask them if they worship to shit.
My explanation you know. What is yours?

I did. They said no. Which must mean that the idea that they worship shit because shit is connected to moon must be yours.

What is third eye? Do you believe that people might have third eye?
Eye is another very common allegory for moon. Look at the Jesus ichty sign. It is eye. Egyptians, Slavs, Hindus, Masonry. Everybody refer to some sky related eye. What is it? Can you show the eye in the sky?

You know what an eye is. You know what three is. Infer from that what a third eye would mean.

And once again, its not an allegory for moon. Jesus fish is not an eye. And the idea of third eye is prevalent in different cultures because it is an allegory for extra-ordinary perception not possible by two eyes. There is no eye in the sky.

Alright. So Hinduism is somebody’s fancy?
Then try to fancy some story, which will not be based on stuff you see around. Use your flight of fancy. Sure, you will not develop a sentence without using real objects in you story. Thus, even if ancient artist was developing the fancy story it was based on real objects he saw around.

Every religion is somebody's fantasy. And they use stuff they see around them to make those fantasies all the time. The thing you seem ignorant of is that moon is not the only thing they see. Which is why saying things like "all religions are ultimately about the moon" is just stupid.

Nope. I told you before. Association with full moon is the association with moon itself. As moon has two different shapes any association connects object both to new and full moon.
In Islamic traditions wolves are associated with new moon. Search google for this words and you will see that: wolf crescent moon

And I told you before - you are wrong. For the resons already explained.
And a novel written by a muslim does not count as evidence for "wolves are associated with new moon in Islamic tradition".

Probably we talk about different kinds of test.
For example to join Mensa society the minimum accepted score on the Stanford-Binet is 132, while for the Cattell it is 148.
Mine is for Stanford-Binet and yours must be for Cattell test.
Despite of this, 145 and 160 are two completely different levels. If you have 145 it is good result. But if you really have 160 you are one of tens persons from all humanity.
But as I see how you solve simple logic tests you don’t have such high results. So don’t cheat.
Also your following text about MQ, from psychological point of view, roars that you are cheating
Couse when people are cheating they don’t fill comfortable and start to tell bullshit, which is not connected to the main story.
Watch “Lie to me” to understand it.

The one I gave was through an invite sent to me to join Mensa.

However, having higher IQ does not mean you get better at finding convoluted pseudo-logical connections between arbitrary objects. It means that you understand that anything can be "connected" to anything else in whatever way you want it to be connected and a higher IQ gives you an understanding where such connections are meaningful and where they aren't. Such understanding seems beyond your capacity.

Why do you think they did not know? They were not stupid to see how moon is moving around the sky and understand that trajectory of moon and sun are crossed. And they were deifying the moon, which has the power to cover the sun.
Moon is an object associated with night and darkness. If sun was getting dark, first what they were thinking that night-god is taking it over.
What is the reason to deify an object, which is disappearing while being covered by some other dark object? Can you explain?

As a matter of fact, they did not know. Which is why their explanation of eclipses included an immortal beheaded demon whose head caused the solar eclipse and whose body caused the lunar eclipse. They were not deifying the entity that caused the eclipse, they were demonizing it. Try understanding their explanation before coming up with your ridiculous notions.

There are no references in RigVeda to 12 periods days or Vedic geometry or astrology. The answer is much simpler than strange “seven hundred twenty sectors of imaginary circle joined in pairs together”
720 is 360 days joined with 360 nights – one year period.
12 – lunar months during one year.
Remember the quest:
“Formed with twelve spokes, by length of time, unweakened, rolls round the heaven this wheel of during Order “
The wheel of order which is rolling round the heaven is specific object they were seeing in the sky. It is moon without any doubt.

Except, Vedic calendar doesn't follow the Gregorian model of 12 months and ~360 days. Further, this is a prayer to Agni (fire) in the sky, which is undoubtedly the sun.

I said it means moon. Crescent is not moon. It is its geometrical shape. Do you understand the difference?

Do you? You are the one who said "His symbol is कौमुदी kaumudī - crescent.". And now you are backtracking. Try and remember that unlike verbal conversations, here I can show you where you lied.

So what? Both guys were herds. Both connected to horned animals. Sheep horns has crescent shape.
SHeeP = SHiP. As I said before, ship due to its shape comes into many god related stories.

But both were not herds. Krishna was an actual cowherd whereas with Jesus, the reference was metaphorical. And there is no ship reference here with Jesus.

Wiki states: Vasudeva Krishna in a decorated helmet
Quote were you have found it states the helmet has no crescent or horns.
Again posting a picture. Please explaine what kind of decoration has helmet of Vasudeva Krishna.

The same place where it says "decorated helmet". If the representation had been of crescent or horns, the the description would've read "Vasudeva Krishna in a helmet decorated with horns and crescent". It doesn't, and no it isn't.

As for what that decoration actually signifies - try doing a bit of objective research into ancient Hindu art without your moon-glasses on. As long as you are seeing moon in everything, you won't figure out what those decorations are and any answer would result in you repeating "but that is connected to moon as well".

Yeah. Sikhs magicly fallen down from the sky on territory of India

Nope - they fell down from Guru Nanak.

Let me point you attention on Sikhism main attributes:
There are 5 items associated with Sikhism:
kēs (uncut hair), kaṅghā (small wooden comb), kaṛā (circular steel or iron bracelet), kirpān (sword/dagger), and kacchera (special undergarment).

None of which are connected to moon.

kēs is hair which grows all life long. Beard and mustache counted as kēs also. kēs is covered by turban with accented crescent or ball like shape.
HaiR = HaRe
BeaRD = BiRD
MuSTache = MeSyaC

Please, keep going. Kesh means hair and those are not the only hair on body.
Ass hair = Ass = full moon (colloq.) = Moon.
Pubic hair = Penis = LUNd (sl. hindi) = LUNa =Moon.
Chest hair = Chest = breasts = two moons.

Obviously, every hair on your body is an allegory for moon.
kaṅghā – Crescent shaped comb.
KaNGha = KiNG

Nope. It just means comb. Not crescent shaped.

kaṛā (circular steel or iron bracelet) कड़ा – silver color round braslet.
Translation of word kaṛā gives good example of forecasting power of presented theory.
कड़ा – stiff, rigid, hard and Spartan.
Interesting, what is so special about Spartans. Google images give answer.

Spartans had V shape on their shields and crescent shape toupee.

Another example of your theory's miserable failure despite misrepresenting facts.

Kara - hard and tough.
Sikhs are to be hard and tough.
Symbolized by the iron or steel bracelet. No relation to Sparta or the moon in any way.

As for Sparta, the letter is not V, its a lambda Λ. Which stands for Laconia. Not moon. Also, the shape of their helmets and toupees are called Phrygian - not crescent and thus, once again, no moon.

kirpān – crescent shaped sword.

No, it just means a short dagger.

kacchera – V shaped trousers.

Again - it means underpants. V shape is unnecessary.

And their sign is Khanda, which has completely crescent shape when wore.

Not moon religion? Aha.

That's not a Khanda. This is.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khanda_%28Sikh_symbol%29

And there is not crescent in there.

Not moon religion. Aha.

Then prove it. Show the difference between turban shape and crescent shape imaged.

You already did. You distorted the crescent shape and still couldn't make the turban shape fit in it.

Listen to yourself: “Ritual cockfight is not connected to religion”
IT IS RITUAL! Ritual means related to religion. Moreover, it happens during religion festivals.

No, it doesn't. A lot of other rituals are practiced within the religious festivals without having any significance within the religion itself. Firecrackers are ritual within Diwali without any religious significance and water-fights are ritual within Holi without any religious significance.

Ok. I believe you understand the connection, but you have to defend your first point.
There is an example from Wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacred_bull

The Sumerian Epic of Gilgamesh depicts the killing by Gilgamesh and Enkidu of the Bull of Heaven, Gugalana, first husband of Ereshkigal, as an act of defiance of the gods. From the earliest times, the bull was lunar in Mesopotamia (its horns representing the crescent moon).[1]
1. Jules Cashford, The Moon: Myth and Image 2003, begins the section "Bull and cow" pp 102ff with the simple observation: “Other animals become epiphanies of the Moon because they look like the moon.... the sharp horns of a bull or cow were seen to match the pointed curve of the waxing and waning crescents so exactly that the powers of the one were attributed to the other, each gaining the other's potency as well as their own.”

Once again, you read only the parts which seem to support your nonsensical notions and completely ignore the wealth of evidence against it.

Nobody said that the bull cannot be conceivably associated with the moon. It can, and maybe in some religions, it is. But your contention goes much beyond that. You are contending that each and every appearance of the bull in any religion is the result of its association with the moon. And the very article you linked to, proves you wrong.

In the very first paragraph: "The bull, whether lunar as in Mesopotamia or solar as in India, is the subject of various other cultural and religious incarnations, "

Solar, as in associated with the sun, not moon.

Also: "The bull was seen in the constellation Taurus by the Chalcolithic and had marked the new year at springtide by the Bronze Age". Again - appearance of the bull without any association with the moon.

Specific to the subject of this part of the thread - there is no sacred bull associated with Artemis - the goddess of moon - as indicated by the hellenistic and roman sections of the article.

You are the one who has to defend your point because you are making the claim that all bull appearances in all religions are allegories for moon and now, your own article proves you wrong.

[Cyberman]

In Islamic traditions wolves are associated with new moon. Search google for this words and you will see that: wolf crescent moon

Sorry, I've seen this crop up a few times in this thread and I can't sit still another second.

Even if - and it's a humungous 'if' - we were to grant anything you said as correct, there is simply no way a New Moon can be a crescent Moon for the simple reason that the New Moon is invisible to the eye (barring Earthshine). If you can see a crescent Moon in the sky, it's already at least a day old. I don't care if you're talking poetry, mysticism or Double Dutch; once you start invoking astronomy or any other science, at least get your facts right.

[Monolens]

Yes, you are correct. New moon is invisible in terms of astronomy.
To be absolutely correct, when I’m saying new moon I mean the state which is known as neomenia. When crescent is already seen in the night sky.
It is possible to call it young moon if you like.
Despite of this Wiki says following about new moon:
The new moon in its original meaning of first crescent marks the beginning of the month in lunar calendars such as the Muslim calendar, and in lunisolar calendars such as the Hebrew calendar, Hindu calendars, and Buddhist calendar. But in the Chinese calendar, the beginning of the month is marked by the dark moon.

[Cyberman]

No, New Moon is invisible full stop, barring Earthshine as I mentioned. There is no "in terms of astronomy". If you're using the term to mean something else, use another term; because in this, as in so many other things, you are factually incorrect.

[Monolens]

No, New Moon is invisible full stop, barring Earthshine as I mentioned. There is no "in terms of astronomy". If you're using the term to mean something else, use another term; because in this, as in so many other things, you are factually incorrect.

Man, you fully understand what I mean.
Type "new moon" in google and you will see that for most people new moon means same state as in Wiki:

The new moon in its original meaning of first crescent marks the beginning of the month.

Anyway, how do you think I should call this state in order not to disturb you sensitive perception.

[Cyberman]

I don't care what "most people" think - what are you, Ray Comfort or something? Words are important. Used correctly they can bring down empires.

If you think you can imagine you can even dream of being taken seriously on anything you're pushing, stop trying to redefine everything to suit your own agenda.

Oh, and while you're at it, fuck off with your condescension.

[Monolens]

I don't care what "most people" think

I care.

And if I'm not right, why u r so irritated?

[Cyberman]

What makes you think I'm irritated? Have you some application for detecting emotional states through bald text? I'm not the one hiding behind Arguments from Popularity, nor the one redefining clearly- and precisely-defined terms just to fit my case. If I'm irritated, it would be your egregious linguistic sloppiness in a thread dedicated to alleged linguistic connections causing it, aggravated by pig-headed refusal to accomodate corrections when they are pointed out.

[Monolens]

I did. They said no. Which must mean that the idea that they worship shit because shit is connected to moon must be yours.

Leave it. It is too complicated concept, possible only real Buddhists are able to perceive it.
That is why there is laughing Buddha. Do you know why he is laughing?
He is showing the moon to stupid human who sees only complex reality and misses most of important details.



"The Devil is in the details"
Remember?
Russians say “The God is in the details”

Buddha is showing his teeth, which form recognizable shape.



MouTH = MSS

Remember – “smile of god”?

Of course you will reply that laughing Buddha does not mean moon. As I told before, this is new theory, that means you now read something that you have never heard before.
Try to understand it not in terms what you know about gods from the books written by people who also never know a dime about it.
Try to use clear logic to connect yourself the described correlation.

For example you know this 3 facts:

1. Russians are famous with association with bear.
2. Bear is divine animal in Russian mythology.
3. Bears have special feature in their coloring. White crescent on black surface.



Is it possible to connect logically these three facts? And receive hypothesis that ancient people were identifying bear as a god due to well-known shape of usually observed object, which was that time being believed to be a god.

You know what an eye is. You know what three is. Infer from that what a third eye would mean.
And once again, its not an allegory for moon. Jesus fish is not an eye. And the idea of third eye is prevalent in different cultures because it is an allegory for extra-ordinary perception not possible by two eyes. There is no eye in the sky.

Yes, eye is allegory of extra-ordinary perception. But why it is so?
Only because this kind of perception can be reached by eye? Or because something with extra-ordinary perception is looking like eye?
Do you know how to say “eye” in Chinese?
Moo.
And hieroglyph for this is 目
It looks like a stairs. Can you remind, where stairs are connected with eye in other cultures?
Americans, whose MoNey have image of flying eye and pyramid. Pyramid geometrically is stair.


Egyptians who were building such big stairs and whose symbol is symbol or Ra and Horus - EYE.
Zoroastrians who also were building such kind of structures called Zikurats.

Stair, star, Astrians, Easter, hotar (Vedic priest)

And Islam, even if its sound strange at this point. The word “Islam” is coming from word سلم which sounds like “SaLeMa” and is translated as "ladder, stairs".

Ladder = leader = lighter
Interesting?
But the most interesting is that Chinese translation of word “moon” is “月” Hieroglyph that also consists of stairs shape.
Tibetan Buddhists symbol is eyes, which they are putting on multistep mountain temples.

So many common patterns are forcing to assume common roots of above touched traditions.

Every religion is somebody's fantasy. And they use stuff they see around them to make those fantasies all the time. The thing you seem ignorant of is that moon is not the only thing they see. Which is why saying things like "all religions are ultimately about the moon" is just stupid.

My conception sounds different:
All religions have common roots based on similar ultra-early belief. Consciously religions are not about moon, but their origin is similar and can be still recognized via correlation of used shapes.
Coming to our reception in such weighty form occured because moon was not (and is not) only visual object. Having many useful characteristics, it gave us ability to cognize surrounding world by comparing those characteristics with objects and events around.
It became etalon for many uses.
Speed, movement, circular turning, two very ergonomically advantageous shapes, light level, color (silver, black, red, yellow, even blue and green (in terms of young)

Mass (MSS) – moon is virtually of unchanged weight. Scales are unit for MeaSuring and its shape is crescent like.


Concept of balance.
CouRT which goddess is Themis symbolized by scales, horn and having eyes accented. Remember who was Moses? Chief of court.


Concept of time.
Practically all religious structures are used to keep time and inform society.
Bells, currants, screams of muezzins, wall clocks.
TEMPles, CHuRCH (CiRCle, CouRT), Mosque (MSS), chapel, hour (hare, year), minute (month), CHRoNo (HoRN), century (santa), age (ox).
Basic calendars were lunar in any tradition. Even today billions of people live by them.

I don’t say that sun was absolutely useless or it does not have its role in development of humanity. However, the role of moon was significantly higher.
And I would like to correct existing misunderstanding in the world which caused humanity to be so unstable.
We must stop any religious wars as well as religions itself due to its common origin. Muslims, Christians, Buddhists, Hinduisms, Judes, everybody have completely same roots, coming from times where we all were united. It is time to understand this simple concept and unite humans in the name of our children.
They don’t have to live in society, where people fight with each other because of their relation to moon or sun.
We need to pass this stupid opposition and move together to the time, where much more complicated tasks expect us.

The one I gave was through an invite sent to me to join Mensa.

Respect if it is so.
And sorry for annoyance.

Except, Vedic calendar doesn't follow the Gregorian model of 12 months and ~360 days. Further, this is a prayer to Agni (fire) in the sky, which is undoubtedly the sun.

360 days can be counted without calendar. Lunar-solar calendar is combination of 360-370 days cycle with 12 lunar month cycle.
There are 12 months in Hindu lunar Calendar.

Do you? You are the one who said "His symbol is कौमुदी kaumudī - crescent." And now you are backtracking. Try and remember that unlike verbal conversations, here I can show you where you lied.

Not lied. It is written in Wikipedia.
Shiva

санскр. कौमुदीkaumudī IAST, «полумесяц»

In Sanskrit it means moon light and even full moon day. This is the demonstration of moon duality.
Moon is moon whenever it is crescent or round. You cannot logically prove that full moon is not young moon.
If I will tell you: “there was a nice moon that time”, will you understand what moon did I mean.

But both were not herds. Krishna was an actual cowherd whereas with Jesus, the reference was metaphorical. And there is no ship reference here with Jesus.

There was no Jesus or Krishna. This whole story is fantasy, allegory. But there is a connection in two points. 1. Both stories about god. 2. Both characters connected with horned animals.
These two connections cannot be ignored during the investigation of religions.
The same logic for example can be used for connecting god of alcohol with Dionysus Krishna, as Dionysus is also armed with flute and guess about its shape? It is doubled!



Remember that lunar god Soma is also mind changing drink?

The same place where it says "decorated helmet". If the representation had been of crescent or horns, the the description would've read "Vasudeva Krishna in a helmet decorated with horns and crescent". It doesn't, and no it isn't.
As for what that decoration actually signifies - try doing a bit of objective research into ancient Hindu art without your moon-glasses on. As long as you are seeing moon in everything, you won't figure out what those decorations are and any answer would result in you repeating "but that is connected to moon as well".

Ok. But you did not answer. What is that helmet decorated with? Name this decoration, please.
And the decoration of Tailand Buddhist temple.

That's not a Khanda. This is.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khanda_%28Sikh_symbol%29
And there is not crescent in there. Not moon religion. Aha.

It is same what I was showing you. But not wired to hat.

You already did. You distorted the crescent shape and still couldn't make the turban shape fit in it.

It is called approximation. It does not have to fit point to point.

---

In the very first paragraph: "The bull, whether lunar as in Mesopotamia or solar as in India, is the subject of various other cultural and religious incarnations, "
Solar, as in associated with the sun, not moon.

Yes, there is. But this is misunderstanding mostly caused by 2000 years of prevailing “sunny” paradigm. Starting to check facts by yourself will let you understand that many connections are not so obvious and correct.
Just try to connect logically the bull and the sun. I believe you will need to brake Okkama rule by creating new entities.
However the moon can be connected by one 100% step as its shape can be found in image of cow.

Specific to the subject of this part of the thread - there is no sacred bull associated with Artemis - the goddess of moon - as indicated by the hellenistic and roman sections of the article.
You are the one who has to defend your point because you are making the claim that all bull appearances in all religions are allegories for moon and now, your own article proves you wrong.

So check Artemis symbols:
• Bow and arrow
• Artemis' chariot was made of gold and was pulled by four golden horned deer
• Harpoon – is horned fishing instrument. Fishing net.
Both symbols are connected with fish.
Lyre - musical instrument with horned shape.



The name Artemis (variants Arktemis, Arktemisa) is most likely related to Greek árktos ‘bear’ (from PIE *h₂ŕ̥tḱos), supported by the bear cult that the goddess had in Attica (Brauronia) and the Neolithic
I have already mentioned the role of bear and its connection to the moon.
Bear in Latin “uRSuS”. Remember that RuSSians are symbolized by bear?
And by the way bears are famous for its habit to catch and eat FISH!

Thank you for attention. Looking forward to hear your objective criticism.

[Fidel_Castronaut]

Yes but lobster sticks to magnet.