Lingvogeometry

[Monolens]

Yes but lobster sticks to magnet.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hzBh0J1YFU

This is what I have told before. There are some people in the world who understands how to use this moon stuff.

U shaped magnet.
forked lobster
rabbit
ship
stone
ear
eyes

Voila! And your nonsence stupid video is popular.

Watch this Mini commercial. See how many moon shapes they put inside. And its about god.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FDg1jsmfvFw


Coming back to rabbit and moon.
This image of lunar god of Indians. Its symbol is moon rabbit.

[Monolens]

Check the connection between Jesus, fish and crescent in Christianity which is fixed by archeologists.



Also you can see evidence of common roots of other discussed allegories:
Deer – moon
Scales – moon
Scales – cross, then cross = moon.
Scales – bird, then bird = moon.

[Fidel_Castronaut]

U shaped magnet.
forked lobster
rabbit
ship
stone
ear
eyes

Voila! And your nonsence stupid video is popular.

You deserved a kudos from me just for turning my comment into a support of your insanity.

Well done!

[genkaus]

And here I thought we were done with your insanity. Apparently not.

Leave it. It is too complicated concept, possible only real Buddhists are able to perceive it.
That is why there is laughing Buddha. Do you know why he is laughing?
He is showing the moon to stupid human who sees only complex reality and misses most of important details.

"The Devil is in the details"
Remember?
Russians say “The God is in the details”

Buddha is showing his teeth, which form recognizable shape.

MouTH = MSS

Remember – “smile of god”?

Of course you will reply that laughing Buddha does not mean moon. As I told before, this is new theory, that means you now read something that you have never heard before.
Try to understand it not in terms what you know about gods from the books written by people who also never know a dime about it.
Try to use clear logic to connect yourself the described correlation.

For example you know this 3 facts:

1. Russians are famous with association with bear.
2. Bear is divine animal in Russian mythology.
3. Bears have special feature in their coloring. White crescent on black surface.

Is it possible to connect logically these three facts? And receive hypothesis that ancient people were identifying bear as a god due to well-known shape of usually observed object, which was that time being believed to be a god.

Except:

Laughing Buddha is laughing to signify happiness and contentment - not because the shape of his mouth can be convoluted to mean moon.

Mouth =/= MSS.

And bears typically don't have any crescent-like markings - so that can't be the reason for revering them

Yes, eye is allegory of extra-ordinary perception. But why it is so?
Only because this kind of perception can be reached by eye? Or because something with extra-ordinary perception is looking like eye?
Do you know how to say “eye” in Chinese?
Moo.
And hieroglyph for this is 目
It looks like a stairs. Can you remind, where stairs are connected with eye in other cultures?
Americans, whose MoNey have image of flying eye and pyramid. Pyramid geometrically is stair.

Egyptians who were building such big stairs and whose symbol is symbol or Ra and Horus - EYE.
Zoroastrians who also were building such kind of structures called Zikurats.

Stair, star, Astrians, Easter, hotar (Vedic priest)

And Islam, even if its sound strange at this point. The word “Islam” is coming from word سلم which sounds like “SaLeMa” and is translated as "ladder, stairs".

Ladder = leader = lighter
Interesting?
But the most interesting is that Chinese translation of word “moon” is “月” Hieroglyph that also consists of stairs shape.
Tibetan Buddhists symbol is eyes, which they are putting on multistep mountain temples.

So many common patterns are forcing to assume common roots of above touched traditions.

What common patterns?

A third eye is regarded as special because two eyes are for normal perception and a third would mean extra-ordinary perception. That's all there is to it.

The Chinese word for eye is "yanjing". It's hieroglyph is more complicated than the one you gave. It has no relation to stairs or to moon.

That being said, the recurrence if "eye" in different mythologies is not surprising because gods are typically regarded as being able to see more than mortals. Also common is building tall monuments to those gods and having stairs in them is also expected.

The actual reasons for these recurring elements are much simpler and more sensible than your crazy moon hypothesis.

My conception sounds different:
All religions have common roots based on similar ultra-early belief. Consciously religions are not about moon, but their origin is similar and can be still recognized via correlation of used shapes.
Coming to our reception in such weighty form occured because moon was not (and is not) only visual object. Having many useful characteristics, it gave us ability to cognize surrounding world by comparing those characteristics with objects and events around.
It became etalon for many uses.
Speed, movement, circular turning, two very ergonomically advantageous shapes, light level, color (silver, black, red, yellow, even blue and green (in terms of young)

Mass (MSS) – moon is virtually of unchanged weight. Scales are unit for MeaSuring and its shape is crescent like.

Concept of balance.
CouRT which goddess is Themis symbolized by scales, horn and having eyes accented. Remember who was Moses? Chief of court.

Concept of time.
Practically all religious structures are used to keep time and inform society.
Bells, currants, screams of muezzins, wall clocks.
TEMPles, CHuRCH (CiRCle, CouRT), Mosque (MSS), chapel, hour (hare, year), minute (month), CHRoNo (HoRN), century (santa), age (ox).
Basic calendars were lunar in any tradition. Even today billions of people live by them.

I don’t say that sun was absolutely useless or it does not have its role in development of humanity. However, the role of moon was significantly higher.
And I would like to correct existing misunderstanding in the world which caused humanity to be so unstable.
We must stop any religious wars as well as religions itself due to its common origin. Muslims, Christians, Buddhists, Hinduisms, Judes, everybody have completely same roots, coming from times where we all were united. It is time to understand this simple concept and unite humans in the name of our children.
They don’t have to live in society, where people fight with each other because of their relation to moon or sun.
We need to pass this stupid opposition and move together to the time, where much more complicated tasks expect us.

Your "conception" is not only different, its insane.

The only significant value of the moon in development of religions has been as a device for time-keeping. And that's because the phases of the moon are the most easily observable astronomical phenomena.

You are the only one "seeing" the moon in each and every religious icon. There is no correlation between different shapes - you "see" and by that, I mean, delude yourself into seeing - those correlations because of your prior conviction that its all about the moon. The ideas about courts and justice have nothing whatsoever to do with the moon.

As for time-keeping, the moon was useful for monthly time-keeping. The sun was still used for daily/hourly time-keeping. So, even in that case moon is not "all-prevalent".

360 days can be counted without calendar. Lunar-solar calendar is combination of 360-370 days cycle with 12 lunar month cycle.
There are 12 months in Hindu lunar Calendar.

Try reading up a bit on Vedic astronomy before making these claims.

Not lied. It is written in Wikipedia.
Shiva

санскр. कौमुदीkaumudī IAST, «полумесяц»

In Sanskrit it means moon light and even full moon day. This is the demonstration of moon duality.
Moon is moon whenever it is crescent or round. You cannot logically prove that full moon is not young moon.
If I will tell you: “there was a nice moon that time”, will you understand what moon did I mean.

It seems the Russian wiki needs to be vetted better. Kaumadi does not mean crescent. It means moonlight - or occasionally - full moon. Not young moon. And no, they are not the same.

There was no Jesus or Krishna. This whole story is fantasy, allegory. But there is a connection in two points. 1. Both stories about god. 2. Both characters connected with horned animals.
These two connections cannot be ignored during the investigation of religions.
The same logic for example can be used for connecting god of alcohol with Dionysus Krishna, as Dionysus is also armed with flute and guess about its shape? It is doubled!

Remember that lunar god Soma is also mind changing drink?

The story being a fantasy and it being an allegory are not the same thing. Those stories are a fantasy, not an allegory. Further, one character is connected to a horned animal and the other is not. Which is why that connection can be ignored. Krishna is also no connected to alcohol or Soma. And the shape of the flutes are not even close to crescents. Further, the types of flutes they play are also completely different. So, no connection there either.

Ok. But you did not answer. What is that helmet decorated with? Name this decoration, please.
And the decoration of Tailand Buddhist temple.

Like I said, I'll tell you what decorations they represent once you do some objective research into Hindu art. Right now, all you are going to see is "moon", "moon", "crescent", "moon" etc. Whatever answer I give you, your reply would be "but that is a symbol for moon too". So, try to figure that one out on your own first.

It is same what I was showing you. But not wired to hat.

And once you see it without being wired to the hat, you should realize that there is no moon there.

It is called approximation. It does not have to fit point to point.

And if it was supposed to represent the moon, you would not have to approximate.

Yes, there is. But this is misunderstanding mostly caused by 2000 years of prevailing “sunny” paradigm. Starting to check facts by yourself will let you understand that many connections are not so obvious and correct.
Just try to connect logically the bull and the sun. I believe you will need to brake Okkama rule by creating new entities.
However the moon can be connected by one 100% step as its shape can be found in image of cow.

So, the part where Wikipedia disagrees with your "theory" is a misunderstanding? Moronic.

The connection between sun and bull can be as easily "logical" as your connection between moon and bull. A bull is "mighty". The sun is "mighty". No need to involve any visual cues.

So check Artemis symbols:
• Bow and arrow
• Artemis' chariot was made of gold and was pulled by four golden horned deer
• Harpoon – is horned fishing instrument. Fishing net.
Both symbols are connected with fish.
Lyre - musical instrument with horned shape.

The name Artemis (variants Arktemis, Arktemisa) is most likely related to Greek árktos ‘bear’ (from PIE *h₂ŕ̥tḱos), supported by the bear cult that the goddess had in Attica (Brauronia) and the Neolithic
I have already mentioned the role of bear and its connection to the moon.
Bear in Latin “uRSuS”. Remember that RuSSians are symbolized by bear?
And by the way bears are famous for its habit to catch and eat FISH!

Thank you for attention. Looking forward to hear your objective criticism.

So, the goddess of moon and hunting is associated with - deer/bears/fish, that is, things that are hunted or bows and arrows/spears/chariots - things used during hunting. So, fucking what?

She doesn't seem to have any relation to horns or bulls - which is what you were supposed to prove. But, ofcourse, since you can't, you ignore it completely and go off in a tangent.

[Monolens]

Laughing Buddha is laughing to signify happiness and contentment - not because the shape of his mouth can be convoluted to mean moon.

You can stay in this happy delusion if you want. For you Buddha is laughing because he is happy. However, Buddhists know very well, what exactly they do while laughing. It is simple neuro lingustis programming in order to have a possibility to MaNipulate. And it works 100% as it is passed by your conscious without distrust.

The Chinese word for eye is "yanjing". It's hieroglyph is more complicated than the one you gave. It has no relation to stairs or to moon.

You mean this one: 眼睛
Its having even two stairs. Don’t you see that?
And this one目is eye also. Check Wiktionary http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/目

That being said, the recurrence if "eye" in different mythologies is not surprising because gods are typically regarded as being able to see more than mortals. Also common is building tall monuments to those gods and having stairs in them is also expected.
The actual reasons for these recurring elements are much simpler and more sensible than your crazy moon hypothesis.

Ok. And what is that simple reason to build stair structures dedicated to gods in every part of the world?

The ideas about courts and justice have nothing whatsoever to do with the moon.

So why there are many symbols left by ancients which connect this two concepts?
Why moon is written together with scales what are the symbol of justice?

Try reading up a bit on Vedic astronomy before making these claims.

I did: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_astronomy
The oldest system, in many respects the basis of the classical one, is known from texts of about 1000 BCE. It divides an approximate solar year of 360 days into 12 lunar months of 27 (according to the early Vedic text Taittirīya Saṃhitā 4.4.10.1–3) or 28 (according to theAtharvaveda, the fourth of the Vedas, 19.7.1.) days. The resulting discrepancy was resolved by the intercalation of a leap month every 60 months. Time was reckoned by the position marked off in constellations on the ecliptic in which the Moon rises daily in the course of one lunation (the period from New Moon to New Moon) and the Sun rises monthly in the course of one year. These constellations (nakṣatra) each measure an arc of 13° 20′ of the ecliptic circle. The positions of the Moon were directly observable, and those of the Sun inferred from the Moon's position at Full Moon, when the Sun is on the opposite side of the Moon.

So 12 lunar months. Time, which is reckoned by the position of moon. And start of year on first new moon after solstice.
It is lunar calendar. Same was used everywhere. Sun is used only one time a year, but for those who can count to 13 it is also useless. Every 13th moon the new year is coming.
What was wrong in my claim?

Like I said, I'll tell you what decorations they represent once you do some objective research into Hindu art. Right now, all you are going to see is "moon", "moon", "crescent", "moon" etc. Whatever answer I give you, your reply would be "but that is a symbol for moon too". So, try to figure that one out on your own first.

Same from your side. Whatever I give you is “not moon”, “not crescent” and “horns have no connection with moon”
For you complex explanation that lunar deity is having a bow because she is a hunter is ok. But simple explanation that artist was representing the shape of deity via the shape of its symbol, seems insane. Just because it is not written in books.
It reminds me the situation with Giordano Bruno.
His geometrical calculations were giving an answer that Earth is turning around the Sun. But church and books of that time had an opposite position fantasied by ancient stupid guys.
Giordano Bruno was killed, but now everybody knows he was correct.
Same with you. You are ready to call insane person, which you even don’t know, who is telling you the result of complex mathematic modelling, just because it is not stated in books fantasied by ancient stupid people. I don’t mean they were stupid, but they did not have that knowledge base and computing power, which is available now.
Think about it. Many ancient concepts appear to be wrong. Even not ancient.
Hundred years ago, people were sure that arsenic helps for many diseases. Try to assure somebody now that it is, and prove it by using only hundred years old book.
People will call you stupid.
But you seriously want to prove your position about god issues using thousand years books and knowledge.
The world is changing quickly. If you cannot think by your own head and analyze the situation with fresh mind, you are doomed to chew somebody’s old chewing gum without a chance to understand the history and reality.

And once you see it without being wired to the hat, you should realize that there is no moon there.

Agree. But it is used only being wired to the hat. And that’s when the crescent comes up.

It is called approximation. It does not have to fit point to point.

And if it was supposed to represent the moon, you would not have to approximate.

For me it is clear without any approximation that both shapes are similar.
It is same if you will ask me to tell what is on image below and I will tell you that for sure it is not an apple as its shape slightly different from the shape of an apple.

I still wonder how did you pass IQ test, as there are many questions for using approximation and shape similarity. But I believe you and won't pedaling this issue again.

The connection between sun and bull can be as easily "logical" as your connection between moon and bull. A bull is "mighty". The sun is "mighty". No need to involve any visual cues.

In terms of ancient people EVERYTHING is mighty. The sun, the moon, the stars, the cow, the tree, the rain, the thunder, the ocean, the fire, the lion, the elephant, the kangaroo etc.
So why mighty sun is represented by bull? Why not kangaroo or alligator?
Why groups of people, who was disconnected from each other for thousands years, suddenly decided that bull represents the god?
And how easy to answer this question by telling that they all were observing the crescent moon, which was defined as god and they were connected it to the bull by similarity of shape of its horns with horns of crescent.

And I would like to remind you your categorical “moon has no connection with fish”
Just look at the symbols from this book. Are you still sure that there are no connections?

[Angrboda]

You know what an eye is. You know what three is. Infer from that what a third eye would mean.
And once again, its not an allegory for moon. Jesus fish is not an eye. And the idea of third eye is prevalent in different cultures because it is an allegory for extra-ordinary perception not possible by two eyes. There is no eye in the sky.

Yes, eye is allegory of extra-ordinary perception. But why it is so?
Only because this kind of perception can be reached by eye? Or because something with extra-ordinary perception is looking like eye?
Do you know how to say “eye” in Chinese?
Moo.
And hieroglyph for this is 目
It looks like a stairs. Can you remind, where stairs are connected with eye in other cultures?
Americans, whose MoNey have image of flying eye and pyramid. Pyramid geometrically is stair.

This would be an interesting speculation if not for the fact that it is completely divorced from reality. As the Wiktionary entry clearly indicates, the Chinese character mù, or eye, was derived from the original Old Chinese pictogram of an eye by turning it on its side and straightening the lines to form three boxes (respectively, white of the eye, iris/pupil, white again; see below). (And yes, I've seen actual historical examples of it.) You would have known that it was derived from the visual representation of an eye instead of a ladder if you were actually a scholar, a linguist, and someone who has actually studied Chinese, instead of what you are, which is a crank with an internet connection. Hell, if you'd even bothered to read the Wiktionary entry you cited you could have figured it out. You didn't figure that out, though, and instead graced us with a wad of shit you pulled from your ass.

[Cyberman]

This entire thread has been so totally divorced from reality, reality has actually taken out a restraining order on it. Right at the beginning, I was really rather intrigued in what was being presented, as it promised to be a refreshingly different take on anything I'd seen before. However, it didn't take long before we've been dragged protesting, kicking and screaming down the dark and twisted alleyways of quite astonishingly insane troll logic that would make even Erich von Däniken take to the bottle. I honestly want to see this guy publish this stuff, just for the sheer sexual pleasure it would give me for it to be blasted to shreds by the derisory laughter of learned academics.

[Lemonvariable72]

There are actually 2 things i'd like to point to add to this, first off is it strikes that the worship is so far spread, it is even in ancient Palestine (as recorded by the ever reliable bible) That is because ancient peoples had a passion for worshiping what gave them sustenance. though especially how they worshiped a golden bull in exodus. Second is how many OT sacrifices call for bulls.

[genkaus]

Playing whac-a-mole was fun for a while - but now its just a lot of work for nothing. Your reply to everything is the same: "the obvious and simple explanation is not the correct one. The reeeally correct explanation is that they subconsciously see the moon in that stuff which is why they worship it". And that's just bullshit. You are the only one seeing moons everywhere - almost as if you were hit in the head with a giant mallet.

So, unless you have something better to say, this would be my last post on the matter.

You can stay in this happy delusion if you want. For you Buddha is laughing because he is happy. However, Buddhists know very well, what exactly they do while laughing. It is simple neuro lingustis programming in order to have a possibility to MaNipulate. And it works 100% as it is passed by your conscious without distrust.

So, the obvious reason that laughing buddha denotes happiness is wrong and the real reason is that Buddists see the moon in his smile? That's delusional.

You mean this one: 眼睛
Its having even two stairs. Don’t you see that?
And this one目is eye also. Check Wiktionary http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/目

I see that Apo already hammered this one down. Waiting for you to say that the original pictogram "actually" is about the moon.

Ok. And what is that simple reason to build stair structures dedicated to gods in every part of the world?

That gods live in the sky and any architecture in their honor must appear as if "reaching to the sky".

So why there are many symbols left by ancients which connect this two concepts?
Why moon is written together with scales what are the symbol of justice?

There aren't and it isn't.

So 12 lunar months. Time, which is reckoned by the position of moon. And start of year on first new moon after solstice.
It is lunar calendar. Same was used everywhere. Sun is used only one time a year, but for those who can count to 13 it is also useless. Every 13th moon the new year is coming.
What was wrong in my claim?

This: "12 lunar months of 27 or 28 days".
and this: "resulting discrepancy was resolved by the intercalation of a leap month every 60 months".

The 12x30 model of gregorian calendar does not fit here. The number of days in a year were not fixed and thus could not be used as standard for anything. Which means, the number 720 does not refer to and has not connection to having "360 days in a year".

Same from your side. Whatever I give you is “not moon”, “not crescent” and “horns have no connection with moon”

Only when it isn't.

For you complex explanation that lunar deity is having a bow because she is a hunter is ok. But simple explanation that artist was representing the shape of deity via the shape of its symbol, seems insane. Just because it is not written in books.

I think you are confused between the meanings of the words "simple" and "complex".

Artemis is the goddess of the hunt - first and foremost. Which is why she uses a bow and which is why she is associated with a lot of wild animals. That's the simple explanation.

Greeks had a bunch of other moon deities as well - Phoebe, Selene, Hecate. If the bow was supposed to be a subtle reference to the moon, then all the other lunar deities would be depicted with bows. They aren't, so, it isn't.

It reminds me the situation with Giordano Bruno.
His geometrical calculations were giving an answer that Earth is turning around the Sun. But church and books of that time had an opposite position fantasied by ancient stupid guys.
Giordano Bruno was killed, but now everybody knows he was correct.
Same with you. You are ready to call insane person, which you even don’t know, who is telling you the result of complex mathematic modelling, just because it is not stated in books fantasied by ancient stupid people. I don’t mean they were stupid, but they did not have that knowledge base and computing power, which is available now.
Think about it. Many ancient concepts appear to be wrong. Even not ancient.
Hundred years ago, people were sure that arsenic helps for many diseases. Try to assure somebody now that it is, and prove it by using only hundred years old book.
People will call you stupid.
But you seriously want to prove your position about god issues using thousand years books and knowledge.
The world is changing quickly. If you cannot think by your own head and analyze the situation with fresh mind, you are doomed to chew somebody’s old chewing gum without a chance to understand the history and reality.

The difference is, nobody would've stopped Bruno from publishing his findings and getting worldwide acclaim for his findings in this day and age. And nobody is stopping you. So, go ahead. Publish your hare-brained notions. Get them peer-reviewed. Show everybody how intricate, innovative and accurate your mathematical modeling is and I'll happily back off. But as long as you are just making these crazy claims here, I'll just keep laughing.

Agree. But it is used only being wired to the hat. And that’s when the crescent comes up.

Only when it is wired incorrectly - as it is, in the picture you picked.

For me it is clear without any approximation that both shapes are similar.

Similarity is not sufficient. Any shape can have some points of similarity with any other shape. In order to represent a crescent, it must be a crescent and it isn't.

In terms of ancient people EVERYTHING is mighty. The sun, the moon, the stars, the cow, the tree, the rain, the thunder, the ocean, the fire, the lion, the elephant, the kangaroo etc.
So why mighty sun is represented by bull? Why not kangaroo or alligator?

They didn't know about kangaroos. They had to pick a common animal and the bull was common.

Why groups of people, who was disconnected from each other for thousands years, suddenly decided that bull represents the god?

A common domesticated animal invaluable to agrarian societies - the male version being mighty and providing useful labor, the female providing milk and sustenance - it is not only not surprising that the bull would be deified, it is expected.

And how easy to answer this question by telling that they all were observing the crescent moon, which was defined as god and they were connected it to the bull by similarity of shape of its horns with horns of crescent.

This is why your explanations is unnecessarily complex. First, you have to prove that the ancients used bull as a stand-in for crescent moon - of which there is no evidence. Then you have to show that all of them - without exception - defined the crescent moon as god - of which there is no evidence. So, it is not an easy answer.

However, we do know that they did attach god-like significance to anything that could be regarded as a "provider" - which explains the bull-worship.

And I would like to remind you your categorical “moon has no connection with fish”
Just look at the symbols from this book. Are you still sure that there are no connections?

What are these pictures supposed to prove? I see no fishes here.

[Fidel_Castronaut]

Serious question: Is this the most batshit insane thread ever?