Is free education bad?

[Something completely different]

I recently had a discussion with someone I know concerning the subject of student fees, which I would like to continue on this forum.

In the country I currently live (Austria) there are no student fees for college or uni, with the exception of private educational institutions. Every attempt by the federal gverment to interduce student fees ended with widespread protests and even the occupation of unis by students and professors.
In Germany the fees for unis and colleges which are state owned are determined by the states and not the federal goverment. Fees vary from different states from 500 euros per semester (Bavaria, Würtenberg) to 280 euros per semester (Berlin).

A person I know recently argued that the missing fees had negative consequences on the Austrian educational system, and here are the 2 points with which he argued:

- As a result of the non existing fees and small fees (in Germany), students often change the subject and chose subjects which do not give them better future career chances.

- The non existing fees cause foreign students to emigrate into this country and thereby take the places of domestic students.




But as far as I know, the number of students who study subjects that do not deliver "good chances for a future career" is high amongst various countries despite the lack or existance of student fees. And the reason why so many foreigners study in Austria is not because of the lack of fees but because of the non existant numerous clausus. Proof for that is in my opinion Hungary, which has an enormous number of German students studying there despite the high fees, because there is no numerus clausus in that country.

Personaly, I dont have a problem with paying fees between 300 to 800 euros per semester, but I absolutly oppose the fees in existance in the US and the UK which are so high that studying is either made a privilege for upper classes or that young academics start their careers with an enormous mountain of debt.

I was unfortunatly uncapable to continue this discussion with that person since he then dismissed me as a "naiv leftist" who believed in "the lies by the jews who run the international left and international banking sector" at which point I left the table he was sitting at.
Still, I would like to know your opinion on student fees and what you think the limit on them should be.

[bladevalant546]

German, the argument presented by your friend seems logical. However, it is made in my opinion the same sense as "grass is greener". Like you said here in America, the fees for a good college run around 1000-5000 dollars per semester. With that said, I know for a fact what you say is true. It honestly feels like education without consequences are only for the rich. While us normal folks have to take on lifetime of debt to get one. I want to go into the field of biology, which I had a natural gifted talent in. However, I cannot afford the immense lifetime of debt. If I had the chance to pay little to nothing to go to school, I would become the best geneticist or virologist there is. I am just afraid of the mountain of debt.

The worse thing is due to corporate control of the American government, profit is the only policy here. That is reflected by the way education done, to create wage slaves basically. That is beside the point, but the effect it has is any attempt to reform education in America is met with “dat is communists….and evillleeeeee and against GAWD!” rhetoric by the conservative masses. It is really a tragedy, I would emigrate to one of the European countries but most of them do not treat American immigrants well.

[kılıç_mehmet]

The second point is good, however the answer is not to charge money for education, it is to lower the quota for foreign students that can enter the country with the purpose of education.
Or, charge foreign students for money, in which case the education should be paid by that foreign student's own country.
In this manner, the government would not feel as though its spending money to allow a foreign student to study only for him/her to take a flight back to his/her own country, having studied without being a burden to the budget of his/her own country.

In my opinion, free education should only be free for nationals, and international student should either study abroad with scholarships from private enterprises, or paid by their own countries.
This way, no one would be wronged.

Other than that, education should be free for citizens of the country.

[Psykhronic]

German, the argument presented by your friend seems logical. However, it is made in my opinion the same sense as "grass is greener". Like you said here in America, the fees for a good college run around 1000-5000 dollars per semester.

And that doesn't take into account room and board. At my old college, it was 11000 a semester by the time I left (room and board was a little less than half.)

[Captain Colostomy]

Is the free education contingent on choosing only 'hot' careers? If it is a program designed to offer free learning for all, well...all people have different interests. Your debate buddy can suck it on that point.

What are 'clausus'?

[pineapplebunnybounce]

German, the argument presented by your friend seems logical. However, it is made in my opinion the same sense as "grass is greener". Like you said here in America, the fees for a good college run around 1000-5000 dollars per semester.

And that doesn't take into account room and board. At my old college, it was 11000 a semester by the time I left (room and board was a little less than half.)

Wow that's crazy expensive. When you say one semester do you mean half a year? Right now my school is 7k++ for a whole year. When I first started in first year it was 6.5k++, but I don't buy textbooks in my last year and I bought probably 500 dollars worth of books in my first (all secondhand too, )

I don't think that only poor people who excel in the narrow evaluation systems of a country deserve to go to school (by using scholarships and grants). Certainly everyone who can keep up deserve to go to school. Even those who can't keep up deserve to give it a shot. (But obviously not everyone deserves the degree, only those who do well should get degrees)

Although I'm academically able to, I don't have the luxury for a lot of professional schools. Because of the fees. You're losing out on talents if you put a price on education. There are very smart people who don't do well in the evaluation systems and may not have scored scholarships. But if you look at the history of the greatest scientists, they haven't always been the best students.

So yea, the benefits outweigh the costs.

[Captain Colostomy]

My pop went to a private college that charges more than Harvard. I still remember his twenty year college reunion invite coming in the mail alongside an outstanding tuition bill. He's 66 and still owes.

[Jackalope]

My pop went to a private college that charges more than Harvard. I still remember his twenty year college reunion invite coming in the mail alongside an outstanding tuition bill. He's 66 and still owes.

Wow. My dad got a Ph.D from the University of Washington, and that's been paid off for a very long time.

When my son was born, I started a 529 education account for him. I've set aside enough to get him through two years at a state University (not including room and board). He's 11 1/2. I'm going to increase how much I set aside per month and hopefully he won't have to take out a lot of student loans. Unless he gets a scholarship, or joins the military, he's not going to have any chance of getting financial aid.

I think we ought to debate reforming our higher education system in the US. We can do better.

[Psykhronic]

And that doesn't take into account room and board. At my old college, it was 11000 a semester by the time I left (room and board was a little less than half.)

Wow that's crazy expensive. When you say one semester do you mean half a year?

Yep a half a year, and I went to a state university. :/

[pineapplebunnybounce]

Wow that's crazy expensive. When you say one semester do you mean half a year?

Yep a half a year, and I went to a state university. :/

OMG that's crazy expensive. Many wouldn't be able to afford that at all, I certainly wouldn't. (I can't even afford mine, it's covered by scholarships).