Iran, more arrests of gays and lesbians.

[kılıç_mehmet]

I havent quite worked out the purpose of this thread...

It is terrible this happens in these countries, but doesnt make our concerns or bid for rights any less valid.

Really, it only shows me that internationalism is a big fuckin' failure, and the UN is actually nothing more than a bunch of useless farts.
Personally, even though I'm against homosexuality and homosex propaganda in public, they also do have a right to exist. However, since its in Iran, its really none of my business.

[Brian37]

I havent quite worked out the purpose of this thread...

It is terrible this happens in these countries, but doesnt make our concerns or bid for rights any less valid.

Really, it only shows me that internationalism is a big fuckin' failure, and the UN is actually nothing more than a bunch of useless farts.
Personally, even though I'm against homosexuality and homosex propaganda in public, they also do have a right to exist. However, since its in Iran, its really none of my business.

How humane of you. I don't give one fuck if you are not physically harming them.

You wont magically turn gay if they have the same rights you do. I am for them being open and you are a complete dip shit.

This is what you sound like.

"I don't care if you are black, just don't be black in public".

I have the same bigoted shit said to me about my atheism at work.

"I don't care that you are an atheist, just don't mention it".

Your homophobic baggage is not theirs and they don't owe you one lick of silence because of your own childish bullshit insecurity.

[freedomfromforum]

I havent quite worked out the purpose of this thread...

It is terrible this happens in these countries, but doesnt make our concerns or bid for rights any less valid.

Really, it only shows me that internationalism is a big fuckin' failure, and the UN is actually nothing more than a bunch of useless farts.
Personally, even though I'm against homosexuality and homosex propaganda in public, they also do have a right to exist. However, since its in Iran, its really none of my business.
(emphasis added)

It's headed toward your doorstep, and it's fueled with the pride of indifference. It'll be your business soon enough with an attitude like yours. http://atheistforums.org/thread-21400-po...#pid524570

[Faith No More]

Really, it only shows me that internationalism is a big fuckin' failure, and the UN is actually nothing more than a bunch of useless farts.
Personally, even though I'm against homosexuality and homosex propaganda in public, they also do have a right to exist. However, since its in Iran, its really none of my business.

Homosexuals have a right to exist? I never took you for a bleeding heart.

[kılıç_mehmet]

Really, it only shows me that internationalism is a big fuckin' failure, and the UN is actually nothing more than a bunch of useless farts.
Personally, even though I'm against homosexuality and homosex propaganda in public, they also do have a right to exist. However, since its in Iran, its really none of my business.

How humane of you. I don't give one fuck if you are not physically harming them.

You wont magically turn gay if they have the same rights you do. I am for them being open and you are a complete dip shit.

This is what you sound like.

"I don't care if you are black, just don't be black in public".

I have the same bigoted shit said to me about my atheism at work.

"I don't care that you are an atheist, just don't mention it".

Your homophobic baggage is not theirs and they don't owe you one lick of silence because of your own childish bullshit insecurity.

Well, speaking of them, and me, well, I rather tend to look at it in the way of handling a majority and minority problem, common thing nowadays.
Since gays or "LGBT" as you call them, are a self-proclaimed minority, I generally tend to look at them as I look towards any other minority.
In my country, there are ethnic minorities that come to me with more or less the same fucking argument that gays or their activists spout in the west.
And I don't treat the gays in any different manner in this than I do ethnic minorities. Minorities do not have the right to impose their own agenda upon the majority. That I will not abide.
Other than that, they do share all the same rights with the majority. If they ask for more, I suggest that they get their own fucking state, and become a majority of their own right, when they can make rules that fit their expectations.
And well, you really make the wrong connections and provide me with wrong comparisons.
I tend to look at it in this way:

A minority comes to me and asks for rights for education in their own language, and then comes to me to provide him with a working place where he can use the education he received in his own language. Its like the situation in Finland, where the Swedish minority fucks up the Finnish majority by forcing them to learn Swedish, for the sake of the minority.

Then the gays come up to me and require me to change marriage according to their specifications so that they can more easily follow their own agenda that in itself is anti-social and counterculture, meaning they try to do the same as the example above, trying to force the majority to do things their way.
But let me tell you this, no one in this world needs the gays. I don't need them. I tolerate their existence because I value human life, but I don't need them to tell me how to define certain things such as marriage, or I don't need them to force me into re-shaping society according to their specifications. So if they don't like it, if they don't want to play things my way, they can go. I say this not only to them, but to any minorty with that kind of an entitlement mentality.

And let me tell you this, people are getting bored of this liberal bullshit. With each day passing, nationalist movements gain foothold in Europe and America, as much as the governments try to suppress it, as people are getting tired with the distortion of their national values, their culture and their traditions which have defined their societies for centuries are being stepped on and trampled underfoot in the name of minorities and marginal groups such as the artificially generated "LGBT" minority. But you're too blind to see. Your way of thinking has failed, and the implementation of failed ideals always backfires. And it will backfire in a way that you won't know what hit you. Liberal cosmopolitanism will be flushed down the toilet for good.

[Brian37]

If they ask for more, I suggest that they get their own fucking state,

Translation, "Code for separate but equal". And "If you don't like it leave".

Please tell me how signing what amounts to be a law document that you get to sign, inheritance rights, and next of kin rights give them more rights than you? No that is the SAME rights you have, not more rights.

Now if they were publicly protesting to make laws forcing you to marry the same sex, then you'd have a case. Or if they passed laws banning you from having a heterosexual marriage, then they would be asking for more rights. But only an idiot thinks they want more rights than any other person.

This simply amounts to you being a childish brat with the same stupid fear born out of ignorance, yours, not theirs.

[Brakeman]

Before you totally stomp his grapes, consider that the change from a propagandized social bigot to a understanding believer in full equality is achieved in a series of several steps. Most of us old enough to remember know that homophobia was not a self-acquired position, anymore than racism was. It was pushed through social peer pressure. It was reinforced from the churches and families. As one falls away from the towed line, one slowly self corrects as one learns more and contemplates more from a position of equality.

I was raised in a Southern Baptist preacher's house and you can best dern bet that I was a homophobe for years.
It takes time to unlearn all that one has learned.
I suggest that we not harshly attack anyone who is not concretely on the other side of the fence but argue and explain why they are so wrong.


P.S.
Oops.. I just saw his following post.. nevermind..

[kılıç_mehmet]

If they ask for more, I suggest that they get their own fucking state,

Translation, "Code for separate but equal". And "If you don't like it leave".

Please tell me how signing what amounts to be a law document that you get to sign, inheritance rights, and next of kin rights give them more rights than you? No that is the SAME rights you have, not more rights.

Now if they were publicly protesting to make laws forcing you to marry the same sex, then you'd have a case. Or if they passed laws banning you from having a heterosexual marriage, then they would be asking for more rights. But only an idiot thinks they want more rights than any other person.

This simply amounts to you being a childish brat with the same stupid fear born out of ignorance, yours, not theirs.

You're still making the wrong connections. Minorities do share the rights of the majority, but since we're making the distinction of being a "majority" and "minority" they can never be equal. For example, a minority cannot dictate a national policy to suit their purposes, never. In this manner, they are not equal. Their rights and privilages are solely tied to the rights and privilages shared by the majority under current laws in a country.

And yes, to the second one, it is as simple as that. History shows that the minorities only possess rights and privilages as much as the majority allows them to have. If they wish for more, that does not suit with the needs and of course the interests of the majority, they can very well leave, if they like or not. For example, our minorities love our country, because they do know that no one would put up with their shit for as long as we have done, but they still want us to bow to their demands, to which I say, "My way, or the highway.". Not "like it or leave it.".

Now to your points:

Please tell me how signing what amounts to be a law document that you get to sign, inheritance rights, and next of kin rights give them more rights than you? No that is the SAME rights you have, not more rights.

You're again using fancy words to cloud what you really want to say. Inheritance rights? Next of kin? These can be provided to them under a different context, if they would bother to actually compromise, while they want that marriage be re-defined, and the society, that is built upon family, and by proxy, marriage, be re-defined to suit their "sexual preferences".
Since they never even bother to bring their case to the majority in a respectful manner and use the same tactics that you use, as though as we both don't know what "LGBT activists" want from the public.
They want everything, ranging from not only marriage, but to adoptions, to the equal existence of homosexuality in society alongside heterosexuality, or even more.
This means to re-define culture, traditions and social connections that things such as family, marriage and child-bearing and raising to fit to the specifications of homosexuals. And again, I'm not excluding other minorities who come up with things that will change the laws and workings of a country to suit their needs and their needs alone.

So indeed, my point still stands.

Now if they were publicly protesting to make laws forcing you to marry the same sex, then you'd have a case.

No. If they were the majority, they would be able to make a law such as that. As a minority, they cannot do this in the first place, so why really make such a stupid statement? Instead, they are forcing me to change marriage to fit their specifications.

Or if they passed laws banning you from having a heterosexual marriage, then they would be asking for more rights. But only an idiot thinks they want more rights than any other person.

Well, marriage was not open to them. Marriage defines a legal union between a man and a woman only, the only way a humans can procreate. Which means, it was there to provide a basis for the family.
These definitions are there in place by the means of culture and traditions.
You want that all of these be changed in order to appease a single minority. You want the same culture and traditions that define marriage and family to be trampled underfoot so that you can exalt your artificial minority, to make it "normal".

This simply amounts to you being a childish brat with the same stupid fear born out of ignorance, yours, not theirs.

I'm not afraid, really. People will eventually rise up and stop the distortion of their values, culture and traditions at the expense of their rights as the majority. And things such as marriage and family are the rights of the people who constitute the majority. Those who fit into the type of marriage that has defined family and social acceptanced unions for years.
Gays are laying claim on something that isn't theirs, in fact, they want a share in a company they didn't invest in. It is theft, in a manner of speaking.

[Brian37]

Before you totally stomp his grapes, consider that the change from a propagandized social bigot to a understanding believer in full equality is achieved in a series of several steps. Most of us old enough to remember know that homophobia was not a self-acquired position, anymore than racism was. It was pushed through social peer pressure. It was reinforced from the churches and families. As one falls away from the towed line, one slowly self corrects as one learns more and contemplates more from a position of equality.

I was raised in a Southern Baptist preacher's house and you can best dern bet that I was a homophobe for years.
It takes time to unlearn all that one has learned.
I suggest that we not harshly attack anyone who is not concretely on the other side of the fence but argue and explain why they are so wrong.


P.S.
Oops.. I just his following post.. nevermind..

Well you lucked out. And sure you should be more understanding for those who don't know better, like you didn't know better. But it is also insane to expect simply being nice all the time will work in the context of every situation. It doesn't.

Just like this person, I think it is perfectly ok to say about the Taliban who shot Malala for merely wanting an education (you are fucking cowards). Not for their sake, but to wake up the people who have the chance to pull their heads out of their ass like you did and turn the tables on those within their ranks.

I think it takes both depending on who when where why and CONTEXT of situation.

I am not going to coddle this guy's insecurities. He needs to grow up. Gays don't want more rights or special rights, period. Just like it is not wrong for girls to want an education.

[kılıç_mehmet]

Before you totally stomp his grapes, consider that the change from a propagandized social bigot to a understanding believer in full equality is achieved in a series of several steps. Most of us old enough to remember know that homophobia was not a self-acquired position, anymore than racism was. It was pushed through social peer pressure. It was reinforced from the churches and families. As one falls away from the towed line, one slowly self corrects as one learns more and contemplates more from a position of equality.

I was raised in a Southern Baptist preacher's house and you can best dern bet that I was a homophobe for years.
It takes time to unlearn all that one has learned.
I suggest that we not harshly attack anyone who is not concretely on the other side of the fence but argue and explain why they are so wrong.


P.S.
Oops.. I just his following post.. nevermind..

Since you obviously don't know me, I was not raised in a religious household, or one that is racist. I have come to the logical conclusion that these are the real parameters that have defined societies for years, and I do know that this will continue in the future.

I really don't like the term "homophobe". I really don't need to fear gays, they don't have the power to change anything, nor do they have the power to create anything, i.e. children.
I am attacking here a certain flawed mindset called liberal cosmopolitanism, I am attacking a mindset that is anti-social and feels entitled to things that they have no rights to.

P.S. Brian here, has again made a comment that I ignored in his previous post about my "insecurities", which I really don't understand.
Obviously he's using very common liberal statements of accusing the "person" that brings forth the arguments, rather than referring to the arguments themselves, he is the one to come forth with personal attacks. I have not called him a degenerate or an anti-social, rootless cosmopolitan that lacks character and wants society to be a den of vice, one that is ruled only by individualistic, bestial desires.
But he goes on ranting about my "insecurity" which seems to be the only argument he can bring up.
And he goes on about ranting on the Taliban and etc., which is not really the same context, and has no real connections to what I have said.
And he's helping me by telling me that I need to grow up. Actually I'm helping him by telling him to open his eyes, and realize that his dissociation with reality and the majority is not gaining him any kind of sympathy before their eyes.
Obviously he does not listen, and speaks as though as I particularly enjoy speaking to him, that he will stop coddling my insecurities by not replying to my words. Nicely done, brian. But as I said, the clock is ticking. Your way of thinking has failed. And you'll soon understand what it means to mock the majority.