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RE: 1 Corinthians 10:31
October 28, 2013 at 4:39 pm
(October 28, 2013 at 4:30 pm)John V Wrote: (October 28, 2013 at 4:25 pm)Lemonvariable72 Wrote: That would be the course, however since you have offered any evidence thatthis being is in any way real, I am forced to judge him as a character. Who's forcing you?
Not a who, a what. The simple fact that since there is zero evidence that god exists as a being in any sense means that when I read the bible I see him as a character and every living example I have of a character is human. So therefore in order to be honest and consistant I must see his action for what they would be considered if commited by anything else with reason.
To-morrow, and to-morrow, and to-morrow,
Creeps in this petty pace from day to day,
To the last syllable of recorded time;
And all our yesterdays have lighted fools
The way to dusty death. Out, out, brief candle!
Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player,
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage,
And then is heard no more. It is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.
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RE: 1 Corinthians 10:31
October 28, 2013 at 4:46 pm
(October 28, 2013 at 4:39 pm)Lemonvariable72 Wrote: Not a who, a what. The simple fact that since there is zero evidence that god exists as a being in any sense means that when I read the bible I see him as a character and every living example I have of a character is human. So therefore in order to be honest and consistant I must see his action for what they would be considered if commited by anything else with reason. Sorry to hear you're limited like that. Most people can consider hypotheticals that go beyond their personal experience.
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RE: 1 Corinthians 10:31
October 28, 2013 at 5:06 pm
Are you saying that god is hypothetical? 
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RE: 1 Corinthians 10:31
October 28, 2013 at 5:12 pm
(October 28, 2013 at 4:46 pm)John V Wrote: (October 28, 2013 at 4:39 pm)Lemonvariable72 Wrote: Not a who, a what. The simple fact that since there is zero evidence that god exists as a being in any sense means that when I read the bible I see him as a character and every living example I have of a character is human. So therefore in order to be honest and consistant I must see his action for what they would be considered if commited by anything else with reason. Sorry to hear you're limited like that. Most people can consider hypotheticals that go beyond their personal experience.
Of course I can, But in this case I am trying to determine is the character god in the bible good as he says or is he evil?
To-morrow, and to-morrow, and to-morrow,
Creeps in this petty pace from day to day,
To the last syllable of recorded time;
And all our yesterdays have lighted fools
The way to dusty death. Out, out, brief candle!
Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player,
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage,
And then is heard no more. It is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.
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RE: 1 Corinthians 10:31
October 28, 2013 at 5:13 pm
Quote:Sorry to hear you're limited like that.
Sorry to see that you believe in fucking fairy tales, johnny....but it isn't as if you haven't made it clear all along.
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RE: 1 Corinthians 10:31
October 28, 2013 at 6:27 pm
(This post was last modified: October 28, 2013 at 7:30 pm by Cinjin.)
(October 28, 2013 at 4:14 pm)GodsRevolt Wrote: It has to do with the relationship between the Creator and the created. God does not need us to be happy or content. But God, because of his position, knows what actions are best, and so doing actions that "please" God are actions that are best.
If you ask your child to behave in class and listen to the teacher, it makes you happy to hear that they have been doing so. But your happiness does not completely rely on your child's behavior in class. You ask your child to do this because you know it is best.
The analogy doesn't really work though. You are not asking your child to do everything in school so that the teacher will realize how amazing you as a parent truly are. Your god is. Essentially, he wants you to do everything so that other people will realize that he's so very cool. This is compounded when you realize that your god wants you to make EVERY action of your day have some kind of significance to his recognition.
It's ridiculous. The only thing that your god really teaches anyone is that he TRULY TRULY loves himself. I mean seriously, all evidence points to him being the evil vindictive queen full of vanity in a Disney movie...... <<insert billowing voice>> "THERE IS NO ONE ELSE BUT ME!! WORSHIP ME!! SERVE ME!! LOVE ME!! FEAR ME!!!!" (...or hey, don't and I'll just burn you forever)
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RE: 1 Corinthians 10:31
October 28, 2013 at 8:39 pm
(October 28, 2013 at 6:27 pm)Cinjin Wrote: (October 28, 2013 at 4:14 pm)GodsRevolt Wrote: It has to do with the relationship between the Creator and the created. God does not need us to be happy or content. But God, because of his position, knows what actions are best, and so doing actions that "please" God are actions that are best.
If you ask your child to behave in class and listen to the teacher, it makes you happy to hear that they have been doing so. But your happiness does not completely rely on your child's behavior in class. You ask your child to do this because you know it is best.
The analogy doesn't really work though. You are not asking your child to do everything in school so that the teacher will realize how amazing you as a parent truly are. Your god is. Essentially, he wants you to do everything so that other people will realize that he's so very cool. This is compounded when you realize that your god wants you to make EVERY action of your day have some kind of significance to his recognition.
It's ridiculous. The only thing that your god really teaches anyone is that he TRULY TRULY loves himself. I mean seriously, all evidence points to him being the evil vindictive queen full of vanity in a Disney movie...... <<insert billowing voice>> "THERE IS NO ONE ELSE BUT ME!! WORSHIP ME!! SERVE ME!! LOVE ME!! FEAR ME!!!!" (...or hey, don't and I'll just burn you forever)
I agree, the analogy falls short. All analogies ultimately do.
"God is the evil queen" but the evil queen did not create her subjects.
Not attacking here, promise, just acknowledging the limitation of analogies.
But I have to disagree with you on the idea that God wants us to do all things to his glory just to get others to acknowledge Him. God does not seek acknowledgement. That would be incredibly petty. God seeks genuine relationships. Not because he needs them, but because He knows their true value. In asking us to do everything to His glory does several things, and they are all relationship based.
When we act towards His glory, we improve genuine relationships around us, with the people who we see as friends AND the people we see as enemies.
When we act towards His glory, we improve our relationship with ourselves, more ready to admit fault and admit we need help to be better. That it is a worthy pursuit to try to be a better person.
When we act towards His glory, we improve our relationship with Him, the One Who knows what is best and forgives without complaint. The One Who knows us better than we know ourselves
". . . let the atheists themselves choose a god. They will find only one divinity who ever uttered their isolation; only one religion in which God seemed for an instant to be an atheist." -G. K. Chesterton
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RE: 1 Corinthians 10:31
October 28, 2013 at 8:44 pm
(October 28, 2013 at 8:39 pm)GodsRevolt Wrote: (October 28, 2013 at 6:27 pm)Cinjin Wrote: The analogy doesn't really work though. You are not asking your child to do everything in school so that the teacher will realize how amazing you as a parent truly are. Your god is. Essentially, he wants you to do everything so that other people will realize that he's so very cool. This is compounded when you realize that your god wants you to make EVERY action of your day have some kind of significance to his recognition.
It's ridiculous. The only thing that your god really teaches anyone is that he TRULY TRULY loves himself. I mean seriously, all evidence points to him being the evil vindictive queen full of vanity in a Disney movie...... <<insert billowing voice>> "THERE IS NO ONE ELSE BUT ME!! WORSHIP ME!! SERVE ME!! LOVE ME!! FEAR ME!!!!" (...or hey, don't and I'll just burn you forever)
I agree, the analogy falls short. All analogies ultimately do.
"God is the evil queen" but the evil queen did not create her subjects.
Not attacking here, promise, just acknowledging the limitation of analogies.
But I have to disagree with you on the idea that God wants us to do all things to his glory just to get others to acknowledge Him. God does not seek acknowledgement. That would be incredibly petty. God seeks genuine relationships. Not because he needs them, but because He knows their true value. In asking us to do everything to His glory does several things, and they are all relationship based.
When we act towards His glory, we improve genuine relationships around us, with the people who we see as friends AND the people we see as enemies.
When we act towards His glory, we improve our relationship with ourselves, more ready to admit fault and admit we need help to be better. That it is a worthy pursuit to try to be a better person.
When we act towards His glory, we improve our relationship with Him, the One Who knows what is best and forgives without complaint. The One Who knows us better than we know ourselves
" love the lord your god with all your heart all your mind and all your strength" - Jesus Christ
To-morrow, and to-morrow, and to-morrow,
Creeps in this petty pace from day to day,
To the last syllable of recorded time;
And all our yesterdays have lighted fools
The way to dusty death. Out, out, brief candle!
Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player,
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage,
And then is heard no more. It is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.
Posts: 1537
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RE: 1 Corinthians 10:31
October 28, 2013 at 8:48 pm
(This post was last modified: October 28, 2013 at 8:53 pm by freedomfromforum.)
(October 28, 2013 at 8:39 pm)GodsRevolt Wrote: When we act towards His glory, we improve genuine relationships around us, with the people who we see as friends AND the people we see as enemies.
When we act towards His glory, we improve our relationship with ourselves, more ready to admit fault and admit we need help to be better. That it is a worthy pursuit to try to be a better person.
When we act towards His glory, we improve our relationship with Him, the One Who knows what is best and forgives without complaint. The One Who knows us better than we know ourselves.
Rewrite...
When we aren't total assholes, we improve genuine relationships around us, with the people who we see as friends AND the people we see as enemies.
When we aren't complete narcissists, we improve our relationship with ourselves, more ready to admit fault and admit we need help to be better. That it is a worthy pursuit to try to be a better person.
When we aren't without compassion, we improve our relationship with our kind, the ones who know what is best and forgives, without complaint. The ones who know us even as we know ourselves.
All of these are possible without the need for a god.
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RE: 1 Corinthians 10:31
October 28, 2013 at 9:17 pm
(This post was last modified: October 28, 2013 at 9:28 pm by GodsRevolt.)
(October 28, 2013 at 8:44 pm)Lemonvariable72 Wrote: (October 28, 2013 at 8:39 pm)GodsRevolt Wrote: I agree, the analogy falls short. All analogies ultimately do.
"God is the evil queen" but the evil queen did not create her subjects.
Not attacking here, promise, just acknowledging the limitation of analogies.
But I have to disagree with you on the idea that God wants us to do all things to his glory just to get others to acknowledge Him. God does not seek acknowledgement. That would be incredibly petty. God seeks genuine relationships. Not because he needs them, but because He knows their true value. In asking us to do everything to His glory does several things, and they are all relationship based.
When we act towards His glory, we improve genuine relationships around us, with the people who we see as friends AND the people we see as enemies.
When we act towards His glory, we improve our relationship with ourselves, more ready to admit fault and admit we need help to be better. That it is a worthy pursuit to try to be a better person.
When we act towards His glory, we improve our relationship with Him, the One Who knows what is best and forgives without complaint. The One Who knows us better than we know ourselves
" love the lord your god with all your heart all your mind and all your strength" - Jesus Christ
The greatest commandment. Amen.
And the second is like it. Love your neighbor as you love yourself.
(October 28, 2013 at 8:48 pm)freedomfromfallacy Wrote: (October 28, 2013 at 8:39 pm)GodsRevolt Wrote: When we act towards His glory, we improve genuine relationships around us, with the people who we see as friends AND the people we see as enemies.
When we act towards His glory, we improve our relationship with ourselves, more ready to admit fault and admit we need help to be better. That it is a worthy pursuit to try to be a better person.
When we act towards His glory, we improve our relationship with Him, the One Who knows what is best and forgives without complaint. The One Who knows us better than we know ourselves.
Rewrite...
When we aren't total assholes, we improve genuine relationships around us, with the people who we see as friends AND the people we see as enemies.
When we aren't complete narcissists, we improve our relationship with ourselves, more ready to admit fault and admit we need help to be better. That it is a worthy pursuit to try to be a better person.
When we aren't without compassion, we improve our relationship with our kind, the ones who know what is best and forgives, without complaint. The ones who know us even as we know ourselves.
All of these are possible without the need for a god.
Very well written.
and Absolutely possible, in a way, but you and I would both agree no small task.
But I was not talking about the necessity of God when it comes to these three tasks, I was asserting that the true and genuine love for God rolls all three into one, and this is God's intentions with us (as far as I understand them) - relationships. True and genuine.
God is not a narcissus seeking recognition, like a little kid saying "Look what I can do, Mommy!" He is asking us to get it right, and when we don't get it right, to admit that we didn't. Relationship building.
EDIT: And dang it if I don't have to attend to my two daughters now and cook them some dinner. No babies on the menu tonight, though. Sorry I have to leave it at that, but I will return! Great conversations!
". . . let the atheists themselves choose a god. They will find only one divinity who ever uttered their isolation; only one religion in which God seemed for an instant to be an atheist." -G. K. Chesterton
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