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(November 9, 2009 at 8:31 am)Scott Anonymous Wrote: I am in full agreement with Agnostic belief which states religion cannot be proved nor can it be disproved.
Actually, it is quite easy to disprove religion. It is quite easy to disprove Jesus isn't God. All one has to do is objectively look at the many promises he has made that he has not kept. A single well-substantiated fact, irreconcilible with a belief is sufficient to prove that belief false.
I marvel that anyone can believe in Jesus in view of the many false promises he has made.
Jesus Promised:
Matt: 6:25-34 “Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not much more valuable than they? Who of you by worrying can add a single hour to his life? And why do you worry about clothes? See how the lilies of the field grow. They do not labor or spin. Yet I tell you that not even Solomon in all his splendor was dressed like one of these. If that is how God clothes the grass of the field, which is here today and tomorrow is thrown into the fire, will he not much more clothe you, O you of little faith? So do not worry, saying, ‘What shall we eat’ or What shall we drink’ or ‘What shall we wear?’ For the pagans run after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them. But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well. Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself.” (There are millions seeking his kingdom and his righteousness and they haven't had anything added unto them.)
Jesus Promised:
Matt 7:9-11 “What man is there of you whom if his son ask bread will he give him a stone? Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent? If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?” (You don't get bread or fish. You don't even get the stone or the serpent. I'll do better than that, ask me.)
Jesus Promised:
Matt 18:19 “Again, I tell you that if two of you on earth agree about anything you ask for, it will be done for you by my Father in heaven. For where two or three come together in my name, there I am with them.” (Agree by the millions. This doesn't work either.)
Jesus Promised:
Matt 21:18-21 Early in the morning, as he was on his way back to the city, he was hungry. Seeing a fig tree by the road, he went up to it but found nothing on it except leaves. Then he said to it, “May you never bear fruit again!” Immediately the tree withered. When the disciples saw this, they were amazed. “How did the fig tree wither so quickly?” they asked. Jesus replied, “I tell you the truth, if you have faith and do not doubt, not only can you do what was done to the fig tree, but also you can say to this mountain, “Go, throw yourself into the sea,’ and it will be done. If you believe, you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer.” (If you believe, will you really receive whatever you ask for in prayer? Absolutely not!)
Jesus Promised:
John 14:12-14 “Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father. And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If ye ask anything in my name I will do it.” (Go ahead, ask anything in his name and watch nothing happen.)
Jesus Promised:
Matthew 17:20 “And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you. (Aparently, out of the millions of Christians, not a single Christian has the faith to work a real miracle.)
Jesus Promised:
Matthew 16:27&28 “For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father’s glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what he has done. I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste of death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.” (They all saw death and he didn't return.)
Jesus Promised:
Matthew 24:34 “Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.” (The generation passed and nothing was fulfilled.)
Jesus Promised:
Revelation 22:7 “Behold, I am coming soon!”
Revelation 22:12 “Behold, I am coming soon!”
Revelation 22:20 “Yes, I am coming soon.”
(Soon? Really. Is two thousand years soon? Of course not. But I'm sure with enough spin Christians can find a way to make it so.
Yes, any dishonest Christian is capable of nullifying these scriptures with apologetics to avoid the obvious truth. One can easily spin a thousand misinterpretations and lame excuses. For a time, it worked for me too.
But the fact remains, these promises are not vague. They are not out of context. They don’t need spin interpretations. They literally reflect what the Jesus of the Bible believed and they literally reflect the message he was trying to convey.
Quote:Children have the right to be taught the controversy and not to be indoctrinated by their parents.
Quote:Scott, are you talking about having ID taught in Science class along side the actual "Science"??
Yes Samson, exactly, and then some.
Scott, regardless how you view Evolution or ID. Science is more than just the Theories and hypothesis ideas and results. Science is also a display of breakdowns, R&D testing in a controlled environment as well as observations and data analysis etc. etc. which are continuously updated, tested again and again for common and different results.
ID does not offer this and has nothing to do with the "Core" of Science. So why dumb down our children by putting it in their classrooms? You have to keep in mind that "IDers" are not doing what I described above. Remember...they feel they already have the answers to that which Science is still working on.......
It would be just as ludicrous as teaching Voodoo in a Mechanics shop class? In other words, it makes no sense.
(November 9, 2009 at 8:21 pm)Samson Wrote: ID does not offer this and has nothing to do with the "Core" of Science. So why dumb down our children by putting it in their classrooms?
Because "dumb-down" is their agenda.
"Look mommy, today, I learned all about how the earth is only 6,000 years old in science class. And tomorrow, we're going to learn all about Jonah and the whale in history class."
(November 9, 2009 at 8:21 pm)Samson Wrote: ID does not offer this and has nothing to do with the "Core" of Science. So why dumb down our children by putting it in their classrooms?
Because "dumb-down" is their agenda.
"Look mommy, today, I learned all about how the earth is only 6,000 years old in science class. And tomorrow, we're going to learn all about Jonah and the whale in history class."
Ok, point taken.. ID hmm not so much..
Children need to be taught science of course, but learning about the bible and religion in general is actually good because it educates them about our past and how the mind works. I didn't start learning about our religious history until my late high school years. Sure I had RE in primary but not science.. heh, I still remember my teachers getting annoyed with me for yelling out in protest at every religious teaching that didn't make sense.
"We need not a God; just another human being to give life a meaning. For people are truly all people have" author unknown
My parents are Atheist and Theist, conflict in this area is never a trouble because they respect each other's views. Funny enough, I was brought up in this environment, you know... cause they're my parents (I hope this makes it a little clearer for you). They both taught me about their views but never forced them on me; they left it up to me to decide, in fact they never told me I had to decide. Naturally, at least it seemed natural then, I chose the reasonable side; the side which actually makes sense. I could never fathom how anyone could believe in such nonsense. Overall I didn't care about the whole religion thing and could never understand why people had to fight over it. I was 10 at the time. By 16, I declared myself a Secular Humanist. I was brought up with reason, the only way any decent parents should do so.
Now on the other hand, if a child is raised by devout Christian parents, for instance, and the only “logic and reason” they teach their child is Christian faith and to interpret the Bible in not only their own twisted way, but to understand it in the child’s own way .. do you not see the potential for a corrupt and confused little child to emerge? A child who doesn’t grasp reason if it smacked them in the head. Children desperately need to understand logic and reason. It is so, so important to the human race’s survival. You’re teaching faith, not reason. You’re confusing young minds and raising them to contradict themselves at every turn. Well.. I guess, if you want them to make it to politics..
"We need not a God; just another human being to give life a meaning. For people are truly all people have" author unknown
(November 11, 2009 at 10:06 am)Scott Anonymous Wrote: Ok, point taken.. ID hmm not so much..
"Thanks to the foolishness of the "intelligent design" faction, which has tried with ignominious un-success to smuggle the teaching of creationism into our schools under a name that is plainly stupid rather than intelligent, and thanks to the ceaseless preaching of hatred and violence against our society by the fanatics of another faith, as well as other related behavior, such as the mad attempt by messianic Jews to steal the land of other people, the secular movement in the United States is acquiring a confidence that it has not known in years, while many of those who put their faith in revelation and prophecy and prayer are feeling the need to give an account of themselves. This is a wholly good development, and it is part of the pluralism and polycentrism that distinguish the sort of society that we have to defend against all enemies, foreign and domestic." Christopher Hitchens, October 26, 2009 in "What I've learned from debating religious people around the world"
With the whole education part, I mean children should be taught about religion. On top of that, reason and logic needs to be taught a lot earlier so to prevent unreasonable views. I had to wait till late high school to be properly educated in this manner.
"We need not a God; just another human being to give life a meaning. For people are truly all people have" author unknown