Vaccines are a plot by big pharma!

[Rayaan]

Sure, vaccines were evidently very useful in bringing down many forms of dangerous epidemics at one point in history, but are they as useful today as they were back then?

I haven't done enough research on this topic, but I know that there is still a considerable amount of debate going on about it. There are experts who support child vaccination, and there are also some experts who are against it. Our member Psychoslice here thinks that vaccines are more harmful than beneficial, but I don't think he's necessarily that much of a delusional wacko nor ignorant as you guys are making it appear to be.

According to my knowledge so far, I personally think that vaccines are good in some ways and they are also bad in some ways. However, I'm still undecided in regards to the question of which argument is stronger. Or maybe the issue is a little more complicated than having simple black and white answer to it. It seems like it at least.

[Cato]

I haven't done enough research on this topic, but I know that there is still a considerable amount of debate going on about it. There are experts who support child vaccination, and there are also some experts who are against it.

Anti vaccination experts? Please point me in their direction.

[Fidel_Castronaut]

Sure, vaccines were evidently very useful in bringing down many forms of dangerous epidemics at one point in history, but are they as useful today as they were back then?

Err, a resounded, 110% yes.

What, you think viral infections stopped with smallpox?

I haven't done enough research on this topic, but I know that there is still a considerable amount of debate going on about it. There are experts who support child vaccination, and there are also some experts who are against it. Our member Psychoslice here thinks that vaccines are more harmful than beneficial, but I don't think he's necessarily that much of a delusional wacko nor ignorant as you guys are making it appear to be.

Yes he is.

Last year at least one child died from measles in Wales because the parents of that child refused to get them vaccinated thanks to the MMR controversy. Bearing in Mind that MMR has been proven without a single doubt to be safe and the 'research' that contributed to the controversy over MMR was fabricated by a guy who lied about his interests, lied about his methodology, performed unethical and unnecessary invasive procedures on children whose parents he paid to perform the research, and lied ultimately about his results.

This is one child that died from something that should, by all good measures, have been eliminated from the world. There is not a single good reason for measles to be a virus we have to contend with in the 21st century. The only reason we do is because some people are still hung about an issue which doesn't exist and prefer woo,mor holistic treatments to treat something that is in no way affected by them.

Multiply this countless times for rubella, mumps, strains of influenza And many others, and you have diseases that should not be killing/harming people anywhere in the world that are still doing irrevocable damage to tens of thousands of lives on a yearly basis.

And there are no reputable 'experts' that are against child vaccination as a way to prevent viral infections. Not one, I can guarantee you that.

According to my knowledge so far, I personally think that vaccines are good in some ways and they are also bad in some ways. However, I'm still undecided in regards to the question of which argument is stronger. Or maybe the issue is a little more complicated than having simple black and white answer to it. It seems like it at least.

I'm sorry Rayaan, but there is no good reason not to be vaccinated.

I've said it countless times and I'll say it again; vaccinations are not all about the individual. Quite the opposite. They are about The entirety of human society, and protecting those that cannot be protected by vaccinations themselves (immuno-compromised, very young and very old).

Small pox was not eliminated by physically defeating the virus. It was eliminated by immunizing entire villages where an outbreak had taken hold so the virus could not transmit to others and then move to other villages. The herd immunity of the regional populations where smallpox was most prevalent wiped it out, and this was only possible thanks to vaccination.

The exact same principle applies to every virus in existence today. It is very, very difficult to 'cure' someone of a viral infection. The only real, tangible course of action is prevention. And it's a tool we have in our arsenal! It's something we can do, right now, to save millions of people. But we still have people like Alice here who are happy to let their personal convictions of woo dictate their behavior. Normally i wouldn't care, but their decision actually affects people like me (immuno-compromised), and the sad thing is I could be infected by an idiot like that and die, and there's not a damn thing I can do about it.

It's sick.

[Rayaan]

Those are all good points to be honest. Can't argue with those.

Also, after doing a further research on this topic, I'm more inclined to agree with you that getting vaccinated is the better and safer decision.


"Our investigations looked at hundreds of thousands of children in Colorado and compared the risk of various vaccine-preventable diseases in children whose parents had refused or delayed vaccines, compared with children whose parents had had them vaccinated. We found that unvaccinated children were roughly 23 times more likely to develop whooping cough, nine times more likely to be infected with chicken pox, and 6.5 times more likely to be hospitalized with pneumonia or pneumococcal disease than vaccinated children from the same communities."

http://www.scientificamerican.com/articl...print=true


"Some parents worry that thimerosal, a mercury-containing preservative, can hurt the immune system. It's a big issue for parents concerned about vaccines and autism. But mercury is out of virtually all childhood vaccines or present in lower amounts than can be found in a can of tuna. Omer says parents need to remember that for every type of vaccination, the disease is a bigger challenge to the baby than the vaccine. That's easy to forget today, when few can remember what polio and whooping cough and even measles look like."

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story...=123369940

[Bad Writer]

---

Yeah, he's the dickhead for understanding and accepting the overwhelming evidence of the efficacy of vaccinations.

He's the dickhead for not putting countless other lives at risk by risking otherwise preventable infections.

---

And that's what you believe, but I don't believe in your fucking beliefs , I don't give a shit about them.

Then why are you here? Are you trying to convince us of something? If so, the argument you are using which is, if I'm not mistaken, "Vaccines are bad because they are bad" isn't convincing to anyone here. It's a circular tautology that even a fifth grader knows better than to use.

If you're not here to convince us, then are you simply here to assert your beliefs at us and nothing more? If so, then you're barking up the wrong tree. As I noted a few posts ago, we are a forum full of skeptics, and preaching doesn't work on us the way it does with people susceptible to magic and woo. We require good evidence if you're going to change our minds, something that obviously isn't required of you to come to a conclusion for something.

[thesummerqueen]

Rayaan, there was also a massive study just concluded which I will try to find the link for absolutely definitively showing there was no link between autism and vaccines. Anti-vaxxers don't have a leg to stand on.

[Fidel_Castronaut]

Rayaan, there was also a massive study just concluded which I will try to find the link for absolutely definitively showing there was no link between autism and vaccines. Anti-vaxxers don't have a leg to stand on.

There have been several, over several years, that have demolished the link fabricated by Andrew Wakefield (I would post the articles but I don't have my university access to google scholar and the nature, the lancet etc at the moment).

But reading this should be damning enough:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/MMR_vaccine_controversy

[psychoslice]

And that's what you believe, but I don't believe in your fucking beliefs , I don't give a shit about them.

Then why are you here? Are you trying to convince us of something? If so, the argument you are using which is, if I'm not mistaken, "Vaccines are bad because they are bad" isn't convincing to anyone here. It's a circular tautology that even a fifth grader knows better than to use.

If you're not here to convince us, then are you simply here to assert your beliefs at us and nothing more? If so, then you're barking up the wrong tree. As I noted a few posts ago, we are a forum full of skeptics, and preaching doesn't work on us the way it does with people susceptible to magic and woo. We require good evidence if you're going to change our minds, something that obviously isn't required of you to come to a conclusion for something.

I didn't come to this thread to change your mind, I know I can't do that, you have already made up your mind, I only came here to say what I believe and that is all.

[thesummerqueen]

Oh, good - then it shouldn't matter when we tell you that what you believe is false and make sure anyone else watching understands that we have facts on our side - not belief.

[psychoslice]