transhumanism

[Zen Badger]

I'm guessing that you're talking about cryogenic suspension?

If so, total waste of time.

I don't accept you as an authority and I am not advising you to do it. I'm doing it myself because I think it gives a reasonable chance. You may not think so and I don't care. it doesn;t affect you one way or the other.

I don't really care whether you accept me as an authority or not. But you've started an discussion on the subject so don't get all snarky when people give you their opinions.

As to cryogenic-suspension, the reason it is a waste of time is because you are dead when they stick you in the freezer. And you will be dead the whole time you are in the freezer. And when you pull you out(if in fact they ever do) you.... Will....still.....be.....dead.

And there ain't no cure for that. So basically cryogenic suspension is a fraud designed to part fools from their money.

As to actual transhumanism, no problem. We've already started down that road as it is with false teeth and eyeglasses and the like.

[Ryantology]

I've never really called myself a transhumanist, but I am certainly down with the implications. I have zero attachment to this weak, fragile, limited biological body and I'm rarely a purist about anything. As long as I'm still me, I don't care what my body is made of.

[bennyboy]

[quote='là bạn điên' pid='578167' dateline='1389110798']

As to cryogenic-suspension, the reason it is a waste of time is because you are dead when they stick you in the freezer. And you will be dead the whole time you are in the freezer. And when you pull you out(if in fact they ever do) you.... Will....still.....be.....dead.

And there ain't no cure for that. So basically cryogenic suspension is a fraud designed to part fools from their money.

I don't think there's anything intrinsically final about brain death so long as the brain structure is intact.

[là bạn điên]

I don't really care whether you accept me as an authority or not. But you've started an discussion on the subject so don't get all snarky when people give you their opinions.

"You didn;t give an opinioon..you stated it as a fact. If you wish to clarify that this is just your opinion then say so.

As to cryogenic-suspension, the reason it is a waste of time is because you are dead when they stick you in the freezer. And you will be dead the whole time you are in the freezer. And when you pull you out(if in fact they ever do) you.... Will....still.....be.....dead.

yes

And there ain't no cure for that.

What never? The way that technology is going I reckon it will be possible within a few centuries to reverse the process.

So basically cryogenic suspension is a fraud designed to part fools from their money.

So no..it isn't

---

[quote='là bạn điên' pid='578167' dateline='1389110798']

As to cryogenic-suspension, the reason it is a waste of time is because you are dead when they stick you in the freezer. And you will be dead the whole time you are in the freezer. And when you pull you out(if in fact they ever do) you.... Will....still.....be.....dead.

And there ain't no cure for that. So basically cryogenic suspension is a fraud designed to part fools from their money.

I don't think there's anything intrinsically final about brain death so long as the brain structure is intact.

Apparently your immortal soul leaves the body at the moment of death

[MindForgedManacle]

Cryogenic suspension is bullshit at the moment. Sure, cold temps can slow down the rate of decay; that's how they perform certain operations on the brain that require time longer than the brain would survive without oxygen. But even then, something like 45-50 minutes is the best that they can manage.
Hell, you're basically freezing yourself, which naturally causes ice crystals to pervade through you and your brain; oops. Probably not coming back from that...

So, while cryogenics might not be in quite the same class as, say, cold fusion, it's currently just not doable and there's no telling if the future can correct improperly preserved people.

[là bạn điên]

Cryogenic suspension is bullshit at the moment. Sure, cold temps can slow down the rate of decay; that's how they perform certain operations on the brain that require time longer than the brain would survive without oxygen. But even then, something like 45-50 minutes is the best that they can manage.
Hell, you're basically freezing yourself, which naturally causes ice crystals to pervade through you and your brain; oops. Probably not coming back from that...

So, while cryogenics might not be in quite the same class as, say, cold fusion, it's currently just not doable and there's no telling if the future can correct improperly preserved people.

Oh dear. you really haven;t a clue about the process they use. there are no ice crystals. Its pointless trying to explain since you have clearly decided that you know all the answers.

I am sure geniuses like Ray Kurzweil might have spotted such an obvious flaw but you just MUST know better

Clue: Its about anti freeze

[Zen Badger]

Cryogenic suspension is bullshit at the moment. Sure, cold temps can slow down the rate of decay; that's how they perform certain operations on the brain that require time longer than the brain would survive without oxygen. But even then, something like 45-50 minutes is the best that they can manage.
Hell, you're basically freezing yourself, which naturally causes ice crystals to pervade through you and your brain; oops. Probably not coming back from that...

So, while cryogenics might not be in quite the same class as, say, cold fusion, it's currently just not doable and there's no telling if the future can correct improperly preserved people.

My objection being that you aren't even alive when you're put in suspension.

So even if they did manage to reanimate your corpse, you won't be in it.

[là bạn điên]

My objection being that you aren't even alive when you're put in suspension.

So even if they did manage to reanimate your corpse, you won't be in it.

Ok Now we are getting into philosophy of mind and I'm on home ground here.

assuming that my corpse can be reanimated why would it NOT be me in it?

[Zen Badger]

My objection being that you aren't even alive when you're put in suspension.

So even if they did manage to reanimate your corpse, you won't be in it.

Ok Now we are getting into philosophy of mind and I'm on home ground here.

assuming that my corpse can be reanimated why would it NOT be me in it?

Because your mind is a bunch of electrical impulses and when those impulses stop so do you.

Now if you were put into suspension while you were alive and you could be frozen in such a way that the freezing didn't cause cellular disruption then yes. It would be a valid option. There is even a species of frog that does this naturally.

But the current method freezes you after you die. And when you die either your mind ceases to be because the electrical activity in your brain has stopped or your soul has moved to the next plane of existence. Either way all that is going in the fridge is a corpse.

[Esquilax]

Ok Now we are getting into philosophy of mind and I'm on home ground here.

assuming that my corpse can be reanimated why would it NOT be me in it?

Your mind is a computer without a proper save function; the moment it switches completely off, all the data is wiped. Even if medical science progresses to a point that they can unfreeze your corpse and reintroduce precisely the same set of electrical impulses and conditions from the moment of your death, it's entirely unclear whether that would be "you," or just someone else with your last living brain state.