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The Rayaan / Jacob(smooth) Situation
#21
RE: The Rayaan / Jacob(smooth) Situation
(January 8, 2014 at 12:04 pm)Jacob(smooth) Wrote: Fair. So where are you getting your definition of a poe? (if not poes law)?

The first three entries if you google "Poe's Law"

Wikipedia:
Quote:Poe's Law, named after its author Nathan Poe, is an Internet adage reflecting the idea that without a clear indication of the author's intent, it is difficult or impossible to tell the difference between an expression of sincere extremism and a parody of extremism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe's_law

Rationalwiki:
Quote:Nathan Poe summarized this pattern in his original formulation of the law:
"Without a winking smiley or other blatant display of humor, it is utterly impossible to parody a Creationist in such a way that someone won't mistake it for the genuine article."
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Poe's_Law

Urban Dictionary (apparently a different entry than you cited):
Quote:Similar to Murphy's Law, Poe's Law concerns internet debates, particularly regarding religion or politics.

"Without a winking smiley or other blatant display of humor, it is impossible to create a parody of Fundamentalism that SOMEONE won't mistake for the real thing."
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.ph...oe's%20Law

Rayaan's original posts included an indication of the author's intent via :p smileys therefore Rayaan wouldn't be considered a Poe. It's the inclusion or exclusion of the smileys that makes the difference.
Teenaged X-Files obsession + Bermuda Triangle episode + Self-led school research project = Atheist.
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#22
RE: The Rayaan / Jacob(smooth) Situation
(January 8, 2014 at 12:04 pm)Jacob(smooth) Wrote: Fair. So where are you getting your definition of a poe? (if not poes law)?

I think Rayaan is using the term in an extended sense. Originally Poe's law stated something to the effect that it's impossible to tell the difference between a fundamentalist Christian, and someone who is just parodying one, unless smilies are included. (Wikipedia says, "Without a blatant display of humor, it is impossible to create a parody of extremism or fundamentalism that someone won't mistake for the real thing.") It has been broadened through usage here at AF to mean anyone pretending to hold religious views they do not hold, for the purpose of some ulterior motive. In that sense, Rayaan was not acting like a Poe, yet Jacob's behavior gave rise to the suspicions of him being a Poe.

As a side note, while it may have never been included in our private discussions, I was the one who penned the line Aractus quoted (as a revision to Tibbs' earlier draft), and my intention in writing it was that the information submitted at the time of account creation would not be checked for validity at that time and that initial account creation would not be dependent on it being valid. Admittedly, it may be open to other interpretations, now that I see it pulled out and standing by itself.


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#23
RE: The Rayaan / Jacob(smooth) Situation
Though I have to admit, I was a poe one time for an April Fool's joke (username "Niqabi Ninja"), but I was later called out on it almost immediately. So I even suck at being a poe.

http://atheistforums.org/thread-11445.html
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#24
RE: The Rayaan / Jacob(smooth) Situation
Yeah, okay....Rayaan's a creepy muslim....but we love him anyway.
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#25
RE: The Rayaan / Jacob(smooth) Situation
(January 8, 2014 at 12:42 pm)Rayaan Wrote: Though I have to admit, I was a poe one time for an April Fool's joke (username "Niqabi Ninja"), but I was later called out on it almost immediately. So I even suck at being a poe.

http://atheistforums.org/thread-11445.html

Should I ever decide to change my username on AF I'm going to change it to Ninja Morgan. I just decided. Big Grin
Teenaged X-Files obsession + Bermuda Triangle episode + Self-led school research project = Atheist.
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#26
RE: The Rayaan / Jacob(smooth) Situation
Well, even you thought you were a poe, so perhaps that's a good thing.
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist.  This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair.  Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second.  That means there's a situation vacant.'
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#27
RE: The Rayaan / Jacob(smooth) Situation


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#28
RE: The Rayaan / Jacob(smooth) Situation
(January 8, 2014 at 10:20 am)Rayaan Wrote: Hmm. Well, I guess that was another privacy violation then. *shudders*
Haha, no I certainly don't mean it like that! I have nothing against you mate and should point out I don't think you should resign from your duties or anything like that. Everyone makes mistakes. I'm just after a bit of clarity on whether this has been interpreted differently by the staff.
For Religion & Health see:[/b][/size] Williams & Sternthal. (2007). Spirituality, religion and health: Evidence and research directions. Med. J. Aust., 186(10), S47-S50. -LINK

The WIN/Gallup End of Year Survey 2013 found the US was perceived to be the greatest threat to world peace by a huge margin, with 24% of respondents fearful of the US followed by: 8% for Pakistan, and 6% for China. This was followed by 5% each for: Afghanistan, Iran, Israel, North Korea. -LINK


"That's disgusting. There were clean athletes out there that have had their whole careers ruined by people like Lance Armstrong who just bended thoughts to fit their circumstances. He didn't look up cheating because he wanted to stop, he wanted to justify what he was doing and to keep that continuing on." - Nicole Cooke
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#29
RE: The Rayaan / Jacob(smooth) Situation
I think it is a testament to this site that there was an investigation which seems reasonably open and fair and the result of which falls (if only just) within the realm of acceptability. Many other sites have moderators who are just bullies and have a pack that does what they like including insulting people then banning people who respond to them. The mods ARE the problem on many sites.

I was disgusted with the mod who spoke about 'whining' and frankly THAT moderator should make a public apology without the avoidance that Rayaan demonstrated.

I trust we will see no more of this unpleasant abuse of power.
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#30
RE: The Rayaan / Jacob(smooth) Situation
(January 8, 2014 at 8:27 am)Aractus Wrote: Oh I nearly forgot. I would have posted this in the original thread in off-topic had it not been locked (I never posted in that thread):

The privacy policy clearly reads this:
  • "You are also required to state your religious views, which is displayed on your profile for the benefit of all members. This information is not checked for validity or accuracy, and is publicly accessible once your account is created."
    Link
With all due respect what Rayaan did was a clear violation of the present written policy which states very clearly that "this information is not checked for validity or accuracy". To me that phrase is very clear and it means that a person's stated religious beliefs will not be investigated by staff; yet that is exactly what was done in this instance.

Tiberius, since you didn't specifically address this part of the privacy policy in your post, could you please clarify the staff's collective opinion on whether my interpretation of this is accurate or if you have a different interpretation of this part of the privacy policy?
That section was added to the policy mainly to clarify that the "requirement" to state your religious views didn't mean you would be banned if you lied about them. However I see now how those words could have the other meaning that you refer to. We will look into making that section more understandable

The investigation of religious beliefs isn't usually done, mainly because being a poe isn't against the rules. It only breaks the rules when the poe starts trolling or otherwise disrupting the forum. Usually people only create poe accounts because they want to troll at some point, so looking into poe accounts (even though being a poe is not against the rules) is done on occasion so that the staff are aware of potential trolls.

(January 9, 2014 at 2:06 am)là bạn điên Wrote: I was disgusted with the mod who spoke about 'whining' and frankly THAT moderator should make a public apology without the avoidance that Rayaan demonstrated.
He did: http://atheistforums.org/thread-22974-po...#pid573050

Quoted here to save people clicking:

LastPoet Wrote:Tiberius had already asked the parts to refrain from commenting on the matter, that we were seriously looking into it, Then Jacob brought it up again, when we didn't made any deliberation. My bad use of 'whining' was sheer dumbness by my part, as it seemed to 1-Dismissive of legitimate concerns; 2- Since I am a mod, people might take my posts as official positions.

Sometimes I'm an ass like that.
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