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RE: Deuteronomy 23:2
March 19, 2014 at 8:15 am
(January 30, 2014 at 10:15 pm)Chad32 Wrote: "No one born of a forbidden marriage nor any of their descendants may enter the assembly of the LORD, not even in the tenth generation."
As if it's not bad enough that we're born into sin because of something we aren't in control of, we are just flat out denied entrance into heaven if we're born out of wedlock. What is with Yahweh and punishing people who have no control over the situation they're in?
This means I can be born through marriage, but because my great grandfather was born out of wedlock I might as well have nothing to do with god at all.
Are you an OT Jew?
Then what the problem is?
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RE: Deuteronomy 23:2
March 19, 2014 at 9:03 am
(March 19, 2014 at 8:15 am)Drich Wrote: (January 30, 2014 at 10:15 pm)Chad32 Wrote: "No one born of a forbidden marriage nor any of their descendants may enter the assembly of the LORD, not even in the tenth generation."
As if it's not bad enough that we're born into sin because of something we aren't in control of, we are just flat out denied entrance into heaven if we're born out of wedlock. What is with Yahweh and punishing people who have no control over the situation they're in?
This means I can be born through marriage, but because my great grandfather was born out of wedlock I might as well have nothing to do with god at all.
Are you an OT Jew?
Then what the problem is?
Are you trying to say that the first two thirds of your book, and the first impression we get of Yahweh, are unimportant? Why would that statement be ok for anyone, at any time? Do you think it was ok for OT Jews? I see a problem with something that I view is not ok now, but apparently was ok then. Why would it be ok then, unless you think it's ok now?
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RE: Deuteronomy 23:2
March 19, 2014 at 12:09 pm
(This post was last modified: March 19, 2014 at 12:16 pm by *Deidre*.)
The OT is a foreshadowing of the NT. Christians "should" know that, and stop dismissing the OT as being irrelevant simply because Jesus came on the scene. The OT and NT work together, but when Christians don't like certain passages in the OT, it is interesting the various excuses that are made to dismiss it.
The OT was a foreshadowing of Jesus' coming. To pretend it has no relevance to a modern day Christian indicates you are a Christian who cherry picks your faith. And if that is the case, maybe you should explore why. You may not be the believer you think you are, and maybe that is worth exploring.
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RE: Deuteronomy 23:2
March 19, 2014 at 12:42 pm
Gee, I always thought the assembly of the Lord referred to an earthly gathering.
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RE: Deuteronomy 23:2
March 19, 2014 at 12:46 pm
Quote:Then what the problem is?
The problem is your godboy who was given lines like these to mouth by his creators!
Quote:17"Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. 18"For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished. 19"Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.…
Matty. 5
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RE: Deuteronomy 23:2
March 20, 2014 at 1:49 am
(This post was last modified: March 20, 2014 at 1:51 am by Godscreated.)
(January 31, 2014 at 9:10 am)Chad32 Wrote: (January 31, 2014 at 3:29 am)Godschild Wrote: Can you really be that dense, I thought you said you were a Christian and knew scriptures. Please if this is the best you can do stop, you are beginning to become an embarrassment to your fellow atheist.
GC
I didn't come across stuff like this in sunday school. They focused more of the friendly stuff. If ever I started becoming an embarrassment to atheists, I'd rather hear it from an atheist. Do you have anything substantial to add?
You've been given much testimony on the subject. What church did you attend and why did you not ask these questions when you were going to church.
GC
(March 19, 2014 at 12:09 pm)Deidre32 Wrote: The OT is a foreshadowing of the NT. Christians "should" know that, and stop dismissing the OT as being irrelevant simply because Jesus came on the scene. The OT and NT work together, but when Christians don't like certain passages in the OT, it is interesting the various excuses that are made to dismiss it.
The OT was a foreshadowing of Jesus' coming. To pretend it has no relevance to a modern day Christian indicates you are a Christian who cherry picks your faith. And if that is the case, maybe you should explore why. You may not be the believer you think you are, and maybe that is worth exploring.
You are correct about the OT being a foretelling of Christ, many of the people in the OT were examples of Christ. Many of the laws in the OT were for everyone, but not all, some were meant fore the Israelites alone.
GC
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
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RE: Deuteronomy 23:2
March 20, 2014 at 9:04 am
(March 19, 2014 at 12:46 pm)Minimalist Wrote: Quote:Then what the problem is?
The problem is your godboy who was given lines like these to mouth by his creators!
Quote:17"Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. 18"For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished. 19"Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.…
Matty. 5
These lines reflect the evolving schism between the followers of Jesus, all of whom were Torah-observant, Pharisaic Jews, including Jesus; and Paul and his acolytes and successors who created a wholly new religion out of the mystery cults of the region, but grafted it onto Judaism. Thus the Jerusalem group, which included Jesus' brother James, was strongly opposed to the groups such as those in Antioch. It was strictly business, thus has it always been.
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RE: Deuteronomy 23:2
March 20, 2014 at 9:06 am
(March 20, 2014 at 1:49 am)Godschild Wrote: (January 31, 2014 at 9:10 am)Chad32 Wrote: I didn't come across stuff like this in sunday school. They focused more of the friendly stuff. If ever I started becoming an embarrassment to atheists, I'd rather hear it from an atheist. Do you have anything substantial to add?
You've been given much testimony on the subject. What church did you attend and why did you not ask these questions when you were going to church.
I did a lot more listening at church than questioning and critical thinking.
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RE: Deuteronomy 23:2
March 20, 2014 at 9:19 am
(March 19, 2014 at 9:03 am)Chad32 Wrote: (March 19, 2014 at 8:15 am)Drich Wrote: Are you an OT Jew?
Then what the problem is?
Are you trying to say that the first two thirds of your book, and the first impression we get of Yahweh, are unimportant? Why would that statement be ok for anyone, at any time? Do you think it was ok for OT Jews? I see a problem with something that I view is not ok now, but apparently was ok then. Why would it be ok then, unless you think it's ok now?
Chad -- this is exactly where the Christians run off the rails. It is the difference between OT literalists, who were the Sadducees and are the Karaites; and the OT interpreters, who were and are the Pharisees, today's rabbinic Judaism. The Pharisees devote their energies to working around the things that were OK "then", whenever "then" was, but are not OK "now", whenever "now" is. And because rabbinic interpretation is so....well, so human...and because there is no formal hierarchy of authority, that is why there are so many sectarian interpretations, even within the most strictly Orthodox.
There's a joke (at least one) about it: Ship arrives at remote island, occupied by one long-castaway Jew. Three buildings, crafted out of local materials. When asked about #1, Abe says "That's where I live". As to #2, "Oh, that's my synagogue". And #3? "Oh, that's the synagogue where I used to belong".
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RE: Deuteronomy 23:2
March 20, 2014 at 9:26 am
(This post was last modified: March 20, 2014 at 9:27 am by Chad32.)
(March 20, 2014 at 9:19 am)rightcoaster Wrote: (March 19, 2014 at 9:03 am)Chad32 Wrote: Are you trying to say that the first two thirds of your book, and the first impression we get of Yahweh, are unimportant? Why would that statement be ok for anyone, at any time? Do you think it was ok for OT Jews? I see a problem with something that I view is not ok now, but apparently was ok then. Why would it be ok then, unless you think it's ok now?
Chad -- this is exactly where the Christians run off the rails. It is the difference between OT literalists, who were the Sadducees and are the Karaites; and the OT interpreters, who were and are the Pharisees, today's rabbinic Judaism. The Pharisees devote their energies to working around the things that were OK "then", whenever "then" was, but are not OK "now", whenever "now" is. And because rabbinic interpretation is so....well, so human...and because there is no formal hierarchy of authority, that is why there are so many sectarian interpretations, even within the most strictly Orthodox.
There's a joke (at least one) about it: Ship arrives at remote island, occupied by one long-castaway Jew. Three buildings, crafted out of local materials. When asked about #1, Abe says "That's where I live". As to #2, "Oh, that's my synagogue". And #3? "Oh, that's the synagogue where I used to belong".
That's a nice joke. The Pharisees were called hypocrites for cherry picking, which is pretty much what most christians do. Jesus also called them out once about shouting in public squares about their religion, which fits putting christianity in public schools to a T. Unfortunately pointing these things out doesn't work as well as you would hope. Of course doing it in privacy kind of goes against the idea that you're trying to save the world from hell, and supposed to kill people who don't convert, and all that. Love your enemies, but drown professed atheists and people of other religions in rivers.
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