The redneck strike again.

[Little Rik]

You certainly missed.
Those who follow spirituality do not eat meat so they wouldn't cause food shortages unlike rednecks that is why spirituality can solve hunger problem.
Now a lot of people especially religious people say that they follow spirituality and yet they eat meat.

"Those who follow spirituality" most certainly eat meat, but I won't hold that against them - because eating vegetables causes the same problems while being incapable of solving the same problems..regardless of whether or not spirit -is-, or -is involved-.

You throw statement here and there without explain how your beliefs suppose to work.
Please explain how you know that people eating meat are really engaged in spirituality.
If you say so you must know what spirituality is so please explain.
Please explain how eating vegies cause the same problems as eating meat.
There is no point in making statements like this without knowing how the system works.
The old saying..........put up or shut up........is still valid mister.

---

The thing is, people aren't obliged to believe in God or reincarnation in order to wake from the meme dream.

Your links point to illusion and dreams.
Illusions and dreams come and go leaving nothing real behind.
A lot of people thinks that by believing in these dreams they can carry on with the difficulties of life but it never works.
Spirituality is just the opposite.
By getting away from the illusion of this material life you can penetrate the real reality.
How do you know that spirituality is not an illusion?
As the illusion leave nothing behind spirituality come hand in hand with peace of mind and happiness according to the effort that one put.
But to explain what God has to do with peace of mind and happiness is something that come later on.

[Cato]

Please explain how eating vegies cause the same problems as eating meat.

Food in, poop out. Same process regardless of what goes in the pie hole.

[Little Rik]

Please explain how eating vegies cause the same problems as eating meat.

Food in, poop out. Same process regardless of what goes in the pie hole.

I can't really argue with a great philosopher like you.

[Confused Ape]

Your links point to illusion and dreams.
Illusions and dreams come and go leaving nothing real behind.
A lot of people thinks that by believing in these dreams they can carry on with the difficulties of life but it never works.

The waking from the meme dream article is about freeing ourselves from all the dreams and illusions. You couldn't have read the article or you'd have known that. Susan Blackmore uses Zen meditation.

Spirituality is just the opposite.
By getting away from the illusion of this material life you can penetrate the real reality.

Modern psychology etc is proving that we have illusions about this material life. What we think of as 'me', for example, is just a story we tell about ourselves. We have beliefs about ourselves which mightn't be true. Our stories can include distorted memories etc. The question is what is left once we've woken up from our illusions? Buddhism and yoga have been looking at that for thousands of years before modern psychology developed.

How do you know that spirituality is not an illusion?
As the illusion leave nothing behind spirituality come hand in hand with peace of mind and happiness according to the effort that one put.

It's a subjective experience so nobody here is going to believe it just because you tell them. They have to find out for themselves by using one of the many available techniques. Nobody is obliged to try it, however. The interesting thing is that the technique I use works very well even though I regard the word 'spiritual' as a metaphor and lack belief in any deities. This indicates that a belief in deities isn't necessary.

But to explain what God has to do with peace of mind and happiness is something that come later on.

I've only managed to achieve pure awareness for a couple of seconds. While I was in that state, though, I had no thoughts or beliefs about it. After all, thoughts and beliefs about the experience aren't the actual experience.

[Whateverist]

Please explain how eating vegies cause the same problems as eating meat.

Food in, poop out. Same process regardless of what goes in the pie hole.

This seems profoundly transformational to me. Once we extract the spiritual food from the pie, the body of that food can be expelled as poop. Spirit pie in, body poop out. So simple.

Teach me Cato, teach me.

[Little Rik]

It's a subjective experience so nobody here is going to believe it just because you tell them. They have to find out for themselves by using one of the many available techniques. Nobody is obliged to try it, however. The interesting thing is that the technique I use works very well even though I regard the word 'spiritual' as a metaphor and lack belief in any deities. This indicates that a belief in deities isn't necessary.

It is a subjective experience up to the point.
I already explained this in previous posts.
Suppose many people head to Rome.
They may take different way to reach Rome so if you come from America you will see different things along the way from me that i come from Australia but as we get close to Rome the feeling get very similar as we see similar landscape and other things.
But as soon as we get in the same place in Rome we see and experience the same thing so while at the beginning of the journey we feel and experience different things at the end it is all the same.
As it work in the finite arena it also work in the infinite one that is why i say that it subjective up to the point.

---

Food in, poop out. Same process regardless of what goes in the pie hole.

This seems profoundly transformational to me. Once we extract the spiritual food from the pie, the body of that food can be expelled as poop. Spirit pie in, body poop out. So simple.Teach me Cato, teach me.

No, no, i am sorry but i did ask Cato first so you will have to wait in the line.
Don't you know the good manners? hock:

[Confused Ape]

Suppose many people head to Rome.
They may take different way to reach Rome so if you come from America you will see different things along the way from me that i come from Australia but as we get close to Rome the feeling get very similar as we see similar landscape and other things.
But as soon as we get in the same place in Rome we see and experience the same thing so while at the beginning of the journey we feel and experience different things at the end it is all the same.

But if you get to Rome before me I won't experience being in Rome just because you are there and nor will anybody else. This is what I mean about it being subjective. Also, this is a 'spiritual Rome' so to speak so people who reached there had to compare notes in order to know they were in the same place.

If I have another two seconds of pure awareness I'll be the only person who knows about it. I can't prove that this was a genuine experience, either, so nobody is obliged to take my word for it. Someone else can only be certain this kind of experience exists by experiencing it for themselves.

[The Grand Nudger]

You throw statement here and there without explain how your beliefs suppose to work.

If you say so you must know what spirituality is so please explain.

I don't have to spend much time wondering whether or not my "beliefs" are working. Since I don;t put any beliefs to work in the first place. We could get pedantic and argue over the definition of belief until the second coming - but I'd rather spend that time yanking my own pud - or hell...somebody else's. At least that way we aren't all miserable during that sad little debate.

Please explain how you know that people eating meat are really engaged in spirituality.

I observe people both eating meat and engaging in whatever they define as "spirituality". That's an open and shut case right thur-

If you say so you must know what spirituality is so please explain.

I leave it to those who have it to define it. I've never experienced it so how could I describe it anyway? In this case, I am limited to commenting on the experiences and propositions of others - others like yourself.

Please explain how eating vegies cause the same problems as eating meat.

Both are, at the very bottom of it all - a transference of energy between forms, producers and consumers. It matters very little how you transfer that energy. It all has to come from somewhere. Animals die in that process. They die by the metric shitloads. Whether you grow the watercress or produce poultry. Pollution is created - either way (though livestock production offers us a means to decrease the level of pollution and waste that veggie production creates). If we measure any particular agricultural commodity by the amount of things dying in the background to produce it we'll find that it's all a wash - and of course we would...being a transference of energy. Whether or not those things gets eaten is a matter of how we choose to treat corpses - and how wasteful we're willing to be (waste, which, in this case being a pollutant- leads to more death and destruction).

There is no point in making statements like this without knowing how the system works.
The old saying..........put up or shut up........is still valid mister.

Agreed. I don't see any description from your corner about how our food is produced. Now take your own advice (or refrain from taking your own advice - I don't care). If you want to explore the issue, make a thread - I'll be there. I'd offer a debate, but I doubt that a person can be reasoned out of a position they didn't reason themselves into.

[Cato]

Whatever spirituality is purported to be in the consumption of food originates in the mind of the consumer. Processing varying combinations of molecules with the ability to harness and/or transfer the sun's energy is not spiritual....it just is. Understanding this means that there can be no inherent spirituality in the vegetable or meat food source; therefore, since it is solely dependent on mental constructs of the consumer anything, everything or nothing can be said to be spiritual which in turn means the argument is meaningless. The best one can do is describe why he/she thinks something is spiritual. There can be no demonstration of universal spiritualness of any particular food type, only the subjective evaluation of the experience of consumption by the individual.

[Little Rik]

Whatever spirituality is purported to be in the consumption of food originates in the mind of the consumer. Processing varying combinations of molecules with the ability to harness and/or transfer the sun's energy is not spiritual....it just is. Understanding this means that there can be no inherent spirituality in the vegetable or meat food source; therefore, since it is solely dependent on mental constructs of the consumer anything, everything or nothing can be said to be spiritual which in turn means the argument is meaningless. The best one can do is describe why he/she thinks something is spiritual. There can be no demonstration of universal spiritualness of any particular food type, only the subjective evaluation of the experience of consumption by the individual.

Physical science hasn't got there yet but sooner or later it will.
In the meantime it is possible to rely on smell but if you eat meat you wouldn't be able to understand as you would be used to the same smell.
Meat eater smell bad as their diet is not fit for a human body.
It is when you stop eating meat that you will be able to judge.
The anger and frustration that and animal going to die at the abattoir
feel build up a chemical reaction and produce toxins.
So on the top of ingesting saturated fats and cholesterol you also ingest these toxins.
Anything that it is not fit for human consumption beside causing physical damages not only prevent the growth of consciousness but lower the consciousness and spirituality is an impossibility.
In nature it is said.......no brain no pain.....so the more a creature is developed the more feel pain so if you compare an animal with a plant then your way of judging is totally defective.
The reaction that a vegetable build up when is pulled out the ground is negligible beside vegetarian diet is most often made up of fruits, grains, nuts, beans or dairy or without dairy for vegans.
Now let us forget for a moment about spirituality or not in food.
What count most is the ability or not to get engaged in spirituality.
With a veg. diet you can, with a meat one you can't.
As simple as that.

---

[quote='Riketto' pid='701539' dateline='1404562247']
You throw statement here and there without explain how your beliefs suppose to work. If you say so you must know what spirituality is so please explain.

I don't have to spend much time wondering whether or not my "beliefs" are working. Since I don;t put any beliefs to work in the first place. We could get pedantic and argue over the definition of belief until the second coming - but I'd rather spend that time yanking my own pud - or hell...somebody else's. At least that way we aren't all miserable during that sad little debate.

I can understand that at this stage in your life you are not interested in beliefs. What i can not understand instead is the fact that you throw judgement about beliefs that you haven't got a clue about.

Please explain how you know that people eating meat are really engaged in spirituality.

I observe people both eating meat and engaging in whatever they define as "spirituality". That's an open and shut case right thur-

The pope define himself as the representative of God on earth or Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi as the new Messiah that does not mean that that is true.
To understand what spirituality means you need a different system other than rely on what people say.
Again you haven't got a clue of what you are talking about.

If you say so you must know what spirituality is so please explain.

I leave it to those who have it to define it. I've never experienced it so how could I describe it anyway? In this case, I am limited to commenting on the experiences and propositions of others - others like yourself.

Not good enough Mister.
If you are not sure just say so rather than throw down statements.

Please explain how eating vegies cause the same problems as eating meat.

Both are, at the very bottom of it all - a transference of energy between forms, producers and consumers. It matters very little how you transfer that energy. It all has to come from somewhere. Animals die in that process. They die by the metric shitloads. Whether you grow the watercress or produce poultry. Pollution is created - either way (though livestock production offers us a means to decrease the level of pollution and waste that veggie production creates). If we measure any particular agricultural commodity by the amount of things dying in the background to produce it we'll find that it's all a wash - and of course we would...being a transference of energy. Whether or not those things gets eaten is a matter of how we choose to treat corpses - and how wasteful we're willing to be (waste, which, in this case being a pollutant- leads to more death and destruction).

What a disaster Rhythm.
So the physical law that say.........no brain no pain ......does not apply to you.
All in the same basket to end up in the same rubbish pit.
Since when a fruit a nut or dairy are a corpse?
And even vegies can be compared to real animals corpses?

There is no point in making statements like this without knowing how the system works.
The old saying..........put up or shut up........is still valid mister.

Agreed. I don't see any description from your corner about how our food is produced. Now take your own advice (or refrain from taking your own advice - I don't care). If you want to explore the issue, make a thread - I'll be there. I'd offer a debate, but I doubt that a person can be reasoned out of a position they didn't reason themselves into.

What i found incredible here is that there are people who believe in evolution and yet evolution does not exist as a vegie and animal are treated at the same level.

---

[quote='Riketto' pid='701576' dateline='1404569584']
Suppose many people head to Rome.
They may take different way to reach Rome so if you come from America you will see different things along the way from me that i come from Australia but as we get close to Rome the feeling get very similar as we see similar landscape and other things.
But as soon as we get in the same place in Rome we see and experience the same thing so while at the beginning of the journey we feel and experience different things at the end it is all the same.

But if you get to Rome before me I won't experience being in Rome just because you are there and nor will anybody else. This is what I mean about it being subjective. Also, this is a 'spiritual Rome' so to speak so people who reached there had to compare notes in order to know they were in the same place.
If I have another two seconds of pure awareness I'll be the only person who knows about it. I can't prove that this was a genuine experience, either, so nobody is obliged to take my word for it. Someone else can only be certain this kind of experience exists by experiencing it for themselves.

When a drop of water end up in the ocean it become the ocean itself.
There is no need to take notes and compare.
The spiritual ocean is one and that is the place where we all end up so the point of subjective does not apply at that stage.
The subjective idea get lost as the subject become the whole.
It remind me about an old friend from when i was living in Sydney.
He was afraid to engage in spirituality because he thought that by ending up in the big ocean of consciousness he would lose his individuality and himself.
The point is that the real you is not a subject or anyone not related to all the rest but the illusion make us believe so.
Spirituality is all about make us realize who we really are.