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Some questions that need to be answered
April 1, 2014 at 5:36 am
(This post was last modified: April 1, 2014 at 5:47 am by therationalist.)
'Something comes from something, nothing comes from nothing.' If this is true, then how do I solve the 'paradox of existence', because it means something should have always existed in order for EXISTENCE to be.
What would be the nature of the above 'something'? in other words, is it a whole something? a lot of things together? something out of our imagination? etc.
All the religious beliefs we have been exposed to so far in our lives, is that the only argument for God's existence? can there be other explanations?
does the existence of God need to metaphysical if He exists?
What would make us believe in God?
What is God, as far as you have heard so far in your life and how does He communicate with us?
...I have more questions, but let's start with answering these first.
“The scientist is not a person who gives the right answers, he's one who asks the right questions.”
― Claude Lévi-Strauss
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RE: Some questions that need to be answered
April 1, 2014 at 6:24 am
(April 1, 2014 at 5:36 am)therationalist Wrote: 'Something comes from something, nothing comes from nothing.' If this is true, then how do I solve the 'paradox of existence', because it means something should have always existed in order for EXISTENCE to be.
What would be the nature of the above 'something'? in other words, is it a whole something? a lot of things together? something out of our imagination? etc.
It all depends how you define something and nothing. But generally science allows nothing to create something. If you get rid everything from our world, for example laws of physics, time, space etc... we'll get nothing, but that nothing will still have properties which can spontaniously pop something into existence.
Besides we create something out of nothing everyday. Take the light bulb for an example. It creates light (stream of fotons) when we flip a switch. You might say it's not created out of nothing because we use power for it to work. Yes, but the fotons never existed before flipping a switch.
Kinda mind blowing if you think about it 
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RE: Some questions that need to be answered
April 1, 2014 at 6:36 am
(This post was last modified: April 1, 2014 at 6:37 am by Alex K.)
Ok, I meant to put that in my signature, because it crops up every two weeks.
What do you mean by something coming from nothing? Coming from is a temporal process which is based on the principles of causation which we observe within our universe, and it always refers to rearrangement of preexisting matter or energy.
Outside of a universe with a timeline etc. these words are entirely meaningless, and there is neither a paradox, nor a properly formed question. Whoever utters them should be forced at gunpoint to define what they mean, so as not to waste our time.
The fool hath said in his heart, There is a God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
Psalm 14, KJV revised edition
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RE: Some questions that need to be answered
April 1, 2014 at 7:21 am
Sweetheart, I'm flat out trying to get my bread to rise. 
"The Universe is run by the complex interweaving of three elements: energy, matter, and enlightened self-interest." G'Kar-B5
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RE: Some questions that need to be answered
April 1, 2014 at 12:32 pm
(April 1, 2014 at 6:24 am)tommynba Wrote: (April 1, 2014 at 5:36 am)therationalist Wrote: 'Something comes from something, nothing comes from nothing.' If this is true, then how do I solve the 'paradox of existence', because it means something should have always existed in order for EXISTENCE to be.
What would be the nature of the above 'something'? in other words, is it a whole something? a lot of things together? something out of our imagination? etc.
It all depends how you define something and nothing. But generally science allows nothing to create something. If you get rid everything from our world, for example laws of physics, time, space etc... we'll get nothing, but that nothing will still have properties which can spontaniously pop something into existence.
Besides we create something out of nothing everyday. Take the light bulb for an example. It creates light (stream of fotons) when we flip a switch. You might say it's not created out of nothing because we use power for it to work. Yes, but the fotons never existed before flipping a switch.
Kinda mind blowing if you think about it
the examples you have given above seems to be a change in the properties of matter or energy. I might have not been able to explain my question properly. In other words, according to the law of conservation of energy, it is neither created nor destroyed. so how is it possible for something to come out of NOTHING.
so my question is, the things we see around today caused from prior things, but HOW DID IT ALL START?
“The scientist is not a person who gives the right answers, he's one who asks the right questions.”
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RE: Some questions that need to be answered
April 1, 2014 at 12:35 pm
(April 1, 2014 at 7:21 am)KichigaiNeko Wrote: Sweetheart, I'm flat out trying to get my bread to rise.
At least someone is doing something worthwhile!
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RE: Some questions that need to be answered
April 1, 2014 at 12:36 pm
(This post was last modified: April 1, 2014 at 12:42 pm by therationalist.)
(April 1, 2014 at 6:36 am)Alex K Wrote: Ok, I meant to put that in my signature, because it crops up every two weeks.
What do you mean by something coming from nothing? Coming from is a temporal process which is based on the principles of causation which we observe within our universe, and it always refers to rearrangement of preexisting matter or energy.
Outside of a universe with a timeline etc. these words are entirely meaningless, and there is neither a paradox, nor a properly formed question. Whoever utters them should be forced at gunpoint to define what they mean, so as not to waste our time.
I have clarified your first question on my last reply.
To answer your second question, what made you come to the conclusion that there do exist a universe where time do not exist? we need to first agree upon this before answering the above question.
(April 1, 2014 at 7:21 am)KichigaiNeko Wrote: Sweetheart, I'm flat out trying to get my bread to rise.
???
Would you like to answer my questions?
So far, only my first two questions have been addressed. I wonder why?
“The scientist is not a person who gives the right answers, he's one who asks the right questions.”
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RE: Some questions that need to be answered
April 1, 2014 at 12:53 pm
You really didn't address my concern.I know about conservation of energy. Assuming that it holds at the cosmological level - which is not obvious, since energy is lost during redshift, so for it to hold we need to assign energy to spacetime curvature which is a subtle thing - a spatially flat universe can have total energy zero, with the temporal curvature absorbing negative energy. So no problem there, but still- this does not address the creation ex nihilo or what those words are supposed to mean.
And I didn't get to questions 3-... because the first one already bothered me enough to post my reply
The fool hath said in his heart, There is a God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
Psalm 14, KJV revised edition
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RE: Some questions that need to be answered
April 1, 2014 at 1:21 pm
(April 1, 2014 at 12:32 pm)therationalist Wrote: According to the law of conservation of energy, it is neither created nor destroyed. so how is it possible for something to come out of NOTHING.
so my question is, the things we see around today caused from prior things, but HOW DID IT ALL START?
Nothing also has energy. Either way conservation of energy is only used in a closed system, and at this time (i think) scientists are not sure if our universe is a closed system, so applying this law to this topic is kinda useless.
As for how did it all start? Big bang is currently the most plausible explanation.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UemhCsaeGgc
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RE: Some questions that need to be answered
April 1, 2014 at 2:47 pm
(This post was last modified: April 1, 2014 at 2:48 pm by archangle.)
(April 1, 2014 at 5:36 am)therationalist Wrote: 'Something comes from something, nothing comes from nothing.' If this is true, then how do I solve the 'paradox of existence', because it means something should have always existed in order for EXISTENCE to be.
What would be the nature of the above 'something'? in other words, is it a whole something? a lot of things together? something out of our imagination? etc.
All the religious beliefs we have been exposed to so far in our lives, is that the only argument for God's existence? can there be other explanations?
does the existence of God need to metaphysical if He exists?
What would make us believe in God?
What is God, as far as you have heard so far in your life and how does He communicate with us?
...I have more questions, but let's start with answering these first.
starting from nothing is a big step for me. M-theory says it may not have started from nothing. And there are a few other possibilities. Quantum soup is something, not nothing. Even Kraus's "zero" is positive + negatives = zero, that aint even nothing. Waves at 90 degrees cancel out to the null point, that aint nothing either to me. 
Nothing freaks me out more than nothing. 
one sentence can sum up all your questions:
We don't know enough to define god outside of what we do know. Period. 
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