Heaven and The Problem of Evil

[FifthElement]

If you are looking for extensive details about Heaven you can find them in "Heaven & Hell" by Swedenborg.

So what the book said about the soul in heaven ?

Is it 100 % who we were in real life or is is stripped of evil (and other undesirable stuff) and, therefore, ultimately, not the soul it used to be ?

Can soul even exist if it's stripped of anything ?

[Tonus]

One thing I've realized that I seldom see Christians talk about in any detail is heaven.

I think that in a book filled with ambiguous ideas that are open to so much interpretation, heaven might be the most ambiguous of all. There really isn't much of a description of it in the Bible, just bits and pieces that don't really fit together well and don't give a very good picture of what to actually expect.

I find it interesting that there is probably more conjecture about hell than there is about heaven, particularly among Christians. It's as if hell is something that they can visualize well enough and fear, but heaven is too vague to really visualize and simply not appealing enough. This is probably where alternatives like eternal life on a paradise on earth come from, in that they sound more interesting than spending eternity in the astral plane, patting god on the back and telling him what a swell guy he is, over and over and over and...

[truthBtold]

If we take out all the supernatural, all the failed prophecies, all the miracles. . The bible will only have a cover and a back.

[tor]

If you are looking for extensive details about Heaven you can find them in "Heaven & Hell" by Swedenborg.

I read Swedenborg. He is fucking stupid.

[Minimalist]

Neither of these people were near death experiences.

You do understand the difference between a near death experience and being fucking dead, right?

What are you a professor of? Bullshit?

[Esquilax]

I think that in a book filled with ambiguous ideas that are open to so much interpretation, heaven might be the most ambiguous of all. There really isn't much of a description of it in the Bible, just bits and pieces that don't really fit together well and don't give a very good picture of what to actually expect.

I find it interesting that there is probably more conjecture about hell than there is about heaven, particularly among Christians. It's as if hell is something that they can visualize well enough and fear, but heaven is too vague to really visualize and simply not appealing enough. This is probably where alternatives like eternal life on a paradise on earth come from, in that they sound more interesting than spending eternity in the astral plane, patting god on the back and telling him what a swell guy he is, over and over and over and...

Well, the more detail you put into a description of heaven, the higher the risk you run of creating an image of it that turns off some of the faithful; if you keep it vague so that they can just plug in their own idea of paradise, you can attract all manner of believers in without having to expend much effort at all.

Hell kinda works the opposite, since it's supposed to be a threat; it's a fine line to walk, but you'd want more detail there to scare the believers into staying, and the nonbelievers into converting. Also, since very few believers think they're actually going to hell, the risk you have with heaven isn't a factor, so you can sort of go nuts with your twisted revenge fantasies against the people who don't think like you, there.

[professor]

Robby,
from all the accounts I have heard and read, Heaven is the original that earth was (in a diminished way) patterned after.
Only hugely more magnificent.
Bigger mountains, clearer water, vast forests.
Each person there, has a unique mansion where friends and family can visit.
The gifting we have here (whatever we love to do) continues there.

If you are a pet lover- all the pets you ever had which you loved will be there.

God's intention in all creation is a family. A great one.

There are vast cities around the Throne Room, with waterways and streets.
There are modes of transport.
Either by thinking of a location and instantly being there, or by a slower means.

The surrounding presence of the Spirit of God there ensures harmony.

Food is made of light.

One thing noted frequently is the number of children there.
Children playing, playing with animals of all kinds, playing with angels, being taught also.

Bob Jones the prophet, in his death experience was asked by Jesus-
"Did you learn to love"?
Every person is asked the same question.

My personal view on our experience here on earth is that this realm is a test.
Most of us deTEST tests don't we.

P.S. those running this place are failing the test.

[Ryantology]

Perhaps you would rather have been made incapable of loving and/or deciding who you would love?

This is, basically, the false assumption which undermines the entire Christian faith, the idea that love is a choice, that it is something you can simply opt to do, or not to do, as if love were no different than lunch.

Love isn't a choice. It is a reaction we have to external stimuli. Do you choose to love your parents when you're a child? Or, is that your natural reaction to the love and care they show for you? For that matter, do you make the conscious decision to love your children? Can you choose to hate a person completely on your own? Is that actually an option you can tick?

Belief is the same way. You can't turn it off and turn it on. It just doesn't work like that. Did you sit down one day and decide to believe in your god? Or, did you come to belief as the result of many different considerations leaving you thinking that it was the best, or only, way to go? Could you make the honest and conscious decision to stop believing in your god tomorrow? To be fully and completely honestly certain that he is just a fictional character?

Of course not.

I can't love your god because I can't believe in him, and I can't believe in him because there isn't enough to convince me he exists. Your religion insists that I can simply ignore this somehow, that I can, if I really want, make the conscious decision to go against how my brain is wired to operate and make a special and unjustified exception to the very rules by which everything else in reality is expected to operate. Your religion says that if I don't do this, it's because I want not to, and that I will suffer eternal punishment as a result. Your religion insists that it is a choice, because that way, it can blame you for the barbarity of it all.

Why should I worship a god that lacks even basic insight into the thought processes of his own creations? That's insanity.

[Anomalocaris]

If you are looking for extensive details about Heaven you can find them in "Heaven & Hell" by Swedenborg.

I read Swedenborg. He is fucking stupid.

He was probably not stupid, just dilusional and insane in a age that treated certain kind of insanity as piety.

---

Robby,
from all the accounts I have heard and read, Heaven is the original that earth was (in a diminished way) patterned after.
Only hugely more magnificent.
Bigger mountains, clearer water, vast forests.
Each person there, has a unique mansion where friends and family can visit.

Heaven is what big haired floozies would want when they win the lottery.

[Esquilax]

Belief is the same way. You can't turn it off and turn it on. It just doesn't work like that. Did you sit down one day and decide to believe in your god? Or, did you come to belief as the result of many different considerations leaving you thinking that it was the best, or only, way to go? Could you make the honest and conscious decision to stop believing in your god tomorrow? To be fully and completely honestly certain that he is just a fictional character?

Of course not.

Does anyone else feel the irony in the fact that the people most likely to characterize belief as a choice are also the ones who say that everyone knows in their hearts that the christian god is real, and those who say they don't believe are just being stubborn?

There's two ways one can take that: one would be to focus on the double standard ("beliefs are choices except for this god one." ) but more likely its a symptom of a much more telling problem for religious apologetics. Namely, that its more focused on the profession of beliefs, than the beliefs themselves. This pops up quite a bit, too much to be coincidence: Pascal's Wager does it, this "you know in your heart," shit does it, "the fool has said there is no god," does it... How many religious arguments are focused on either keeping you in line with christian behaviors regardless of your actual beliefs, or neutralizing the credibility of dissent?

It's about making everyone toe the party line, nothing else.