Heaven and The Problem of Evil

[Huggy Bear]

Huggy, can Almighty God create a realm that has no sin and suffering now and will never in the future?

Seriously man, how many times do I have to answer that question.

[*Deidre*]

make them eat from it, but he did make the tree of knowledge and make it easily accessible.

I clearly stated that it wasn't a tree, the original sin was sexual. That is what opened their eyes to realize they were naked. The Bible doesn't get explicit so it uses "tree" as symbology. The fruit of a tree are the reproductive organs, make sense?

I also stated that the serpent was not a snake. Otherwise it would make no sense for God to curse the serpent to crawl on his belly if he is already crawling on his belly.

Genesis 3
14 And the Lord God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:

According to your religious views tagline by your username, you don't believe in religion. Why are you using Bible passages to defend your statements? I don't honestly care what you believe, that's your choice... but not sure why you state you don't believe in religion, when your defense to others is very much a Christian one.

Sorry, that just caught my eye. lol

I will say I believe people can be 'spiritual,' or believe in a deity, without following any particular religion, per se. I guess when I read your tagline initially, I thought you were a deist, until I started seeing the smattering of Bible passages all over the thread, here.

[RobbyPants]

Huggy, can Almighty God create a realm that has no sin and suffering now and will never in the future?

Seriously man, how many times do I have to answer that question.

I'm looking for a simple yes or no. You keep going on about Satan causing sin and all that other stuff. I'm not asking if Satan is capable of causing sin. I'm not asking if sin leads to suffering and death. I'm not asking if Eden was actually heaven or was just like heaven. I just want a yes or no answer to the question because I seriously could not glean that from your response.

Is almighty God capable of creating a realm that has no sin and suffering now and will not ever have it in the future? Can he do that? Yes/no.

[Rampant.A.I.]

...if I read the descriptions of Martians and Martian culture from the perspective of alchemy, astrology and Christian mystic perspective after joining the modern illuminati and pledging myself to the order of the Rosy Cross I will understand better, and the following passage about the People from Jupiter...

That's actually rather clever, although you forgot to mention Freemasons and the Knights Templar.

Freemasons are a contemporary group with more mysticism than their fraternity of craftsmen. The Templar and Rosicrucians and original illuminati are interesting historical groups.

So to repeat the original question you completely ignored, In your opinion, is Swedenborg's description of Martians...or Jupiterians and Jupiterian communication as accurate as his description of Heaven, or less accurate?

I don't ignore really, I just don't have as much time as I would like to make appropriate responses.

Swedenborg relates his visionary experiences using the same symbolic methodology found in his theological works like Arcana Coelestia. In those texts, various nations of the ancient word serve as representatives of spiritual qualities. For example, Egypt and Egyptians correspond to the love of natural sciences. Amorites and Canaanites refer to those who love evil, etc. By using alchemical terms widely understood by his contemporaries, he was able to communicate the character of various spirits he encountered in the spiritual world. Likewise in other texts, he explains the character of earthly spirits in the anatomical terms of a Microcosm.

Not a good read for the literally minded, but if you try reading more poetically, Swedenborg is really very insightful. Its similar to those who take Revelation literally; it's not a very fruitful approach.

I do get what you're saying, and while I believe a liberal approach to criticism is more productive than what is traditionally acceptable, I did enjoy reading Swedenborg and will be reading more. I'm a fan of Gnostic and early Eastern Christianity and currently reading then Nag Hammadi scriptures, so I honestly thank you for the recommendation.

[Neo-Scholastic]

You clearly believe that God can create a good realm where people are happy. Why do we have to endure here before we get there? You just said he has no limitation in that regard.

Either I was not clear or you misunderstood. God does not provide a happy place. Rather, God empowers those who follow Him to refrain from sin. A community of spirits that refrain from sin form a Heaven.

[Huggy Bear]

I clearly stated that it wasn't a tree, the original sin was sexual. That is what opened their eyes to realize they were naked. The Bible doesn't get explicit so it uses "tree" as symbology. The fruit of a tree are the reproductive organs, make sense?

I also stated that the serpent was not a snake. Otherwise it would make no sense for God to curse the serpent to crawl on his belly if he is already crawling on his belly.

Genesis 3
14 And the Lord God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:

According to your religious views tagline by your username, you don't believe in religion. Why are you using Bible passages to defend your statements? I don't honestly care what you believe, that's your choice... but not sure why you state you don't believe in religion, when your defense to others is very much a Christian one.

Sorry, that just caught my eye. lol

I will say I believe people can be 'spiritual,' or believe in a deity, without following any particular religion, per se. I guess when I read your tagline initially, I thought you were a deist, until I started seeing the smattering of Bible passages all over the thread, here.

Good question.
When I say I don't believe in religion I mean religious organization. You can be a Christian and not be religious , likewise you can be atheist and be religious (I already proved that in another thread)

I use the Bible because that is the foundation of what I believe,(kind of like how a dictionary would be the standard to define a word) and also to show that I'm not making anything up.

I try to keep the Bible quoting limited to the "theistic" threads.

---

Seriously man, how many times do I have to answer that question.

I'm looking for a simple yes or no. You keep going on about Satan causing sin and all that other stuff. I'm not asking if Satan is capable of causing sin. I'm not asking if sin leads to suffering and death. I'm not asking if Eden was actually heaven or was just like heaven. I just want a yes or no answer to the question because I seriously could not glean that from your response.

Is almighty God capable of creating a realm that has no sin and suffering now and will not ever have it in the future? Can he do that? Yes/no.

Like I said I've answered your question, but since you don't seem capable of going back a page and looking I'll just post it here.

Yes: So, God is capable of making a perfect realm where we don't sin, and we won't sin down the line. This is what most people consider heaven. If God can make that place, why didn't he make it in the first place? Once we get to that point in time (where there will be no sin in the future), then all discussions of sin and sin-caused suffering are useless and moot. If that realm can exist, then we could be in it now, but we aren't because God wants suffering.

No: So, there will always be sin sometime down the road, which means heaven is not permanent and you believe in a heaven vastly different than most Christians.


So Huggy, which is it? Yes or no? Can almighty God create a realm that has no sin and won't have sin in the future?

How did I not make myself clear? if an yes or no answer is what you want, the answer to "Can almighty God create a realm that has no sin and won't have sin in the future?" is yes. God wanting suffering would only be true if he made Eve sin.

[truthBtold]

According to your religious views tagline by your username, you don't believe in religion. Why are you using Bible passages to defend your statements? I don't honestly care what you believe, that's your choice... but not sure why you state you don't believe in religion, when your defense to others is very much a Christian one.

Sorry, that just caught my eye. lol

I will say I believe people can be 'spiritual,' or believe in a deity, without following any particular religion, per se. I guess when I read your tagline initially, I thought you were a deist, until I started seeing the smattering of Bible passages all over the thread, here.

Good question.
When I say I don't believe in religion I mean religious organization. You can be a Christian and not be religious , likewise you can be atheist and be religious (I already proved that in another thread)

I use the Bible because that is the foundation of what I believe,(kind of like how a dictionary would be the standard to define a word) and also to show that I'm not making anything up.

I try to keep the Bible quoting limited to the "theistic" threads.

---

I'm looking for a simple yes or no. You keep going on about Satan causing sin and all that other stuff. I'm not asking if Satan is capable of causing sin. I'm not asking if sin leads to suffering and death. I'm not asking if Eden was actually heaven or was just like heaven. I just want a yes or no answer to the question because I seriously could not glean that from your response.

Is almighty God capable of creating a realm that has no sin and suffering now and will not ever have it in the future? Can he do that? Yes/no.

Like I said I've answered your question, but since you don't seem capable of going back a page and looking I'll just post it here.

How did I not make myself clear? if an yes or no answer is what you want, the answer to "Can almighty God create a realm that has no sin and won't have sin in the future?" is yes. God wanting suffering would only be true if he made Eve sin.

So u use the bible. So then the goofy shit in it, u just chuck it away??

[RobbyPants]

You clearly believe that God can create a good realm where people are happy. Why do we have to endure here before we get there? You just said he has no limitation in that regard.

Either I was not clear or you misunderstood. God does not provide a happy place. Rather, God empowers those who follow Him to refrain from sin. A community of spirits that refrain from sin form a Heaven.

I'm not asking what he does. I'm asking what he can do.

So, it is your stance that the people in heaven could sin, yet don't? So they have free will, but they never sin? How is that possible, if no one is without sin here on earth? There must be some sort of transformation happening between their life here and their existence in heaven.

If there is a transformation, why didn't God just make us like that in the first place?

Like I said I've answered your question, but since you don't seem capable of going back a page and looking I'll just post it here.

I apologize. I did miss that. Okay...

How did I not make myself clear? if an yes or no answer is what you want, the answer to "Can almighty God create a realm that has no sin and won't have sin in the future?" is yes. God wanting suffering would only be true if he made Eve sin.

So, my point is: God can make a world where there is no suffering and will be no suffering, yet he didn't. He made this world knowing full well that there could be suffering. There are two options here:

• He had no choice. This is a nonstarter, because you just said he can do so, or
  
• He wanted to allow for sin and suffering.
  

I suppose you could argue that he didn't know there would be sin, but that kind of shoots omniscience and all of his prophesying in the foot...

[*Deidre*]

What is funny to me and was when I was following religion as well, is that some people and some of you actually think that you "know" how a god "operates." Going as far as correcting people here. Lol!!

Oh no, God doesn't do THAT, he does THIS.

Why pretend you know something you don't know? If you don't know the answer to a complex math problem, do you guess and pass it off as truth? But you know what the Creator of the universe wants to convey to us? Lmao!

It's everyone's right to follow religion if they wish but don't insult us here by acting like you are enlightened and we are just some stupid schlubs who can't grasp all that you "know," about your god.

You know as much as me as to who or what a god might even be, should one exist.

[Coffee Jesus]

I think huggy is assuming God is omnipotent and omniscient.

The problem is that this leads to the conclusion that God isn't completely good.