Obese Epidemic: Political, Economic and Scientific

[KichigaiNeko]

@ Daniel
Did you follow those videos on "Men who make us Fat"?
Even for those people who 'appear normal weight' have twice the amount of visceral fat causing health issues.

All in all, it is a bit concerning that our food is so tampered with and marketed in such a way that we are encouraged to eat much more than we need of things that we don't need in great quantities.

We're encouraged to eat more than we want, not just more than we need. Yes I watched both series through. As for visceral fat, I already talked a bit about it in another thread and its link to diabetes, and the fact that it is the reason why Indians, south-east Asians and Africans are at higher risk of developing Type 2 diabetes even if they're just a little bit overweight, and that's due to body type, and that's the same reason that someone like me who has a family history of diabetes is at risk (that and high blood sugar).

As a counter balance, the multi billion dollar Diet Industry.

And yet we ALL remain Fat!

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http://youtu.be/I-_LoAm_etU

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I haven't watched that series, but I can tell you a few facts of the diet industry off the top of my head. Number one - they make claims and promises that are untrue, number two many of the proponents of fad diets (30 Bananas a Day, Atkins, etc) have absolutely no idea of human nutrition and are not qualified (Atkins was a nutritionist, but certainly not a very good one), and yet people go to them and put their trust in these crazy cockamamie diets, and buy their books. Number 3, many of them are out there to rip-off customers - Gyms are a great example, they're not good value at all for most of their customers, if their customers only had to pay when they actually used the Gym then they'd actually have to do something to attract their customers to use their services more. There are plenty of other examples of overly expensive systems etc that are designed to keep you buying the product - Jenny Craig is one of the better ones because they do give you proper advice from a nutritionist for your specific diet, and you don't have to buy their meals if you don't want to, Weight Watchers is another one that is one of the better value systems.

Not unliken to religions. My point being is...WHY ARE HUMANS SO GULLIBLE TO BE READILY SOLD THE IMPOSSIBLE DREAM?

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You're seriously obsessed with what other people eat. As long as they aren't forcing you to eat the shit they do, what's it to you?

I thought so too at first Nora. But no. It is MORE about just what is "sold as Healthy" and just what is good for us to eat.

He IS trying. Unlike you, he hasn't found what works for him quite just yet.

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Curious article just through on my news feed
http://www.lshtm.ac.uk/newsevents/news/2..._diet.html

Mother's diet modifies her child's DNA
Tuesday, 29 April 2014.

The first such evidence of the effect in humans opens up the possibility that a mother’s diet before pregnancy could permanently affect many aspects of her children’s lifelong health.

Researchers from the MRC International Nutrition Group, based at the London School of Hygiene & Tropical Medicine and MRC Unit, The Gambia, utilised a unique ‘experiment of nature’ in rural Gambia, where the population’s dependence on own grown foods and a markedly seasonal climate impose a large difference in people’s dietary patterns between rainy and dry seasons.

Through a selection process involving over 2,000 women, the researchers enrolled pregnant women who conceived at the peak of the rainy season (84 women) and the peak of the dry season (83 women). By measuring the concentrations of nutrients in their blood, and later analysing blood and hair follicle samples from their 2-8 month old infants, they found that a mother’s diet before conception had a significant effect on the properties of her child’s DNA.

[Aractus]

Not unliken to religions. My point being is...WHY ARE HUMANS SO GULLIBLE TO BE READILY SOLD THE IMPOSSIBLE DREAM?

Well, they don't know what does and doesn't work. How many programs, besides AA, can you name off the top of your head that work for reforming Alcoholics? And AA itself doesn't work for everyone. How about reforming career criminals - is there a system that works for everyone for them as well?

I don't think people are gullible, I think they're resistant to implementing change (long term lifestyle changes, not short term diets), and unwilling to do the extra work.

[KichigaiNeko]

Not unliken to religions. My point being is...WHY ARE HUMANS SO GULLIBLE TO BE READILY SOLD THE IMPOSSIBLE DREAM?

Well, they don't know what does and doesn't work. How many programs, besides AA, can you name off the top of your head that work for reforming Alcoholics? And AA itself doesn't work for everyone. How about reforming career criminals - is there a system that works for everyone for them as well?

I don't think people are gullible, I think they're resistant to implementing change (long term lifestyle changes, not short term diets), and unwilling to do the extra work.

I an thinking it is more of BOTH Daniel. We don't like change but will accept ANYTHING that gives us the delusion that we don't have to do anything to change?

Just mumble a few words once a week, drink some potion, pop a pill and leave everything up to some authority?

[fr0d0]

You're seriously obsessed with what other people eat. As long as they aren't forcing you to eat the shit they do, what's it to you?

They're as good as forcing you. Controlling the information that informs your choice and destroying the competition for starters. It's an epidemic/ pandemic because humans are unable to resist.

[Aractus]

I an thinking it is more of BOTH Daniel. We don't like change but will accept ANYTHING that gives us the delusion that we don't have to do anything to change?

Just mumble a few words once a week, drink some potion, pop a pill and leave everything up to some authority?

Well obesity is a medical condition, and as the Doc points out, we don't have effective medication to prescribe to patients. Well we do actually have drugs that are effective - cocaine, amphetamine, adderall, laxatives, steroids... the problem is that the drugs we have also have side-effects (eg addiction). I do think in the future we will have effective drugs, because we've learned a lot about how the body works and the role that leptin resistance plays in causing people to become overweight. So for instance, a drug that releases synthetic leptin may be able to combat leptin resistance, and used in combination with an effective appetite suppressant.

The problem will always be that people will abuse it, just like they do now with the surgical methods. And that's not because leptin resistance drives them to eat, it's because it's very difficult to change behaviour - but it's not impossible and people will loose weight if they change their eating habits and develop healthier ones (surgery or no surgery).

[KichigaiNeko]

I am also curious about the weight gain in people who already have a healthy diet and do exercise. Found this on YouTube
http://youtu.be/VgnbRK8pij8

[Chesterton]

What do you have against obese people?

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Being fat is quite practical if you ask me

[Aractus]

I am also curious about the weight gain in people who already have a healthy diet and do exercise. Found this on YouTube

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http://youtu.be/VgnbRK8pij8

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You know, I was thinking about this a little bit today. Back in one of the videos one of the scientists mentioned that they couldn't make rats obese just by feeding them rat food - they went to the store and got high calorie sweets and all their rats got obese. Well the same is true for other animals - cattle don't generally get fat from eating grass - they have the opportunity to eat as much grass as they want, but they all stay about the same size (most of them that is), until they're taken to feedlots and given grain, instead of grass, to fatten them up.

On my Aunt's farm she has cattle and horses, and one of her horses is fat. It chooses to eat as much as it can whenever it can, but most do not. This is how obesity has been historically in humans, we've had some obese people, but only because they had a hunger for overeating for some reason.

Research has shown, as mentioned in those videos I posted, that obese people want to exercise less overall. Now this isn't at all surprising since their BMR (Basal Metabolic Rate) is actually higher than normal due to the energy needs of carrying extra bulk (there's more blood to circulate, etc), and their calorie needs are higher even though they do less physical activity than they would if they were smaller.

Now, in yestey-year back when we had a small number of obese people, did we find that those people struggled with losing weight? Well I would assume so - and we have the same thing on a broader scale now, which is why I compared it to giving up smoking. I know a couple of smokers that have "given up" smoking numerous times, but at present are regular smokers. Even with the assistant of aids like nicotine patches.

Well, obesity is similar - loosing weight itself is not difficult, but making long-term permanent changes is. That's why most people get to a certain point - be it their goal weight, or wherever and then they return to their old "pre-diet" eating habits - they go back to their "comfort zone", back to what feels good and releases all that dopamine in the brain, etc. Back to eating methods that cause leptin resistance - but if they wanted to stay healthy they could if they'd only stayed on a healthy weight-management eating plan, it's really not rocket science.

It's also why I don't 100% agree when Dr. Robert Lustig simply says that "diet and exercise doesn't work" - that's as stupid as saying that nicotine patches don't work, and I haven't seen the data, but let's say that the average smoker has to give up six times to give up forever - that's 5x "failures" for every "success", and many may have given up or died before they got to that 6th attempt, so you would at the raw statistics and conclude "hey, only 10% of the people using this product are actually giving up smoking, that's placeebo surely!"

His conclusion that diets don't work (or for that matter exercise) is based on the same basic principle, people can and do in fact loose weight through diet and exercise, but it's difficult, especially if after you've lost weight you don't know how to keep it off, and so many will relapse and have to go through it again.

Most people after they come off a successful diet and keep their weight down do in fact regain a small amount after coming off the diet. That's actually normal - but what I think happens, or could happen, is that when people see the extra 5kg come back on they instinctively "give up" and thin that it's failure, when in fact it isn't - it's simply the body re-adjusting to healthy eating again.

[sven]

Not only that as you have stated fr0d0, it is a marketing ploy well learned from religion..... consumer perception is EVERYTHING

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Loved this remark in E3 of "The Men who made us fat"

The conflict of interest is outrageous, putting the food Industry at the policy table is akin to putting Dracula in charge of the blood bank"

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As a counter balance, the multi billion dollar Diet Industry.

And yet we ALL remain Fat!

http://youtu.be/I-_LoAm_etU

The man in the video is an asshole, obviously.
The way to loose weight is to eat less carbs and move more.
You can start with walking, for example. Take a brisk walk of 60 minutes before breakfast.

[Aractus]

Why are you blaming carbs? True, Dr Lustig blames Fructose (which is a carbohydrate), but why are you blaming weight gain on carbs?

As for exercise - an obese person has a higher BMR than if they were normal weight, so they're already burning "extra calories"...