Roman Camp Found Near the Elbe

[Minimalist]

So much for the idea that the Romans abandoned all interest in Germania after the Teutobergerwald fiasco.

http://news.sciencemag.org/archaeology/2...rn-germany

“Now we have the first camp that’s clearly more than a day trip from the edge of the empire,” he says. “It’s no isolated frontier outpost, but something that clearly points to the Elbe River,” hundreds of kilometers deep in German territory.

[Lemonvariable72]

Well that was no minor excursion either.

[Minimalist]

A couple of years ago there was evidence of a smaller scale Roman action in Germany, east of the Rhein. Probably cohort strength with some auxillia sent along with some ballista it dated to the 3d century (coins found on the field) and probably represented a Roman helping hand to one tribal chieftain against another. The local governors doubtless had the inclination to get the Germanic tribes fighting among themselves and didn't mind putting their thumbs on the scale when it served their purpose.

But this find is a full legionary camp. Whoever it was, they weren't fucking around.

[Lemonvariable72]

A couple of years ago there was evidence of a smaller scale Roman action in Germany, east of the Rhein. Probably cohort strength with some auxillia sent along with some ballista it dated to the 3d century (coins found on the field) and probably represented a Roman helping hand to one tribal chieftain against another. The local governors doubtless had the inclination to get the Germanic tribes fighting among themselves and didn't mind putting their thumbs on the scale when it served their purpose.

But this find is a full legionary camp. Whoever it was, they weren't fucking around.

Given that its its before the 3rd century they were probably dealing with a series of small raids on the border. So they decided to make a example of what happens when you fuck with Rome.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

So much for the idea that the Romans abandoned all interest in Germania after the Teutobergerwald fiasco.

http://news.sciencemag.org/archaeology/2...rn-germany

“Now we have the first camp that’s clearly more than a day trip from the edge of the empire,” he says. “It’s no isolated frontier outpost, but something that clearly points to the Elbe River,” hundreds of kilometers deep in German territory.

I don't think it perfectly correct to say that Rome abandoned all interest in Germania after the Varus disaster. Whenever interest in the region began to flag, some gaggle of unwashed barbarians (the Goths, the Chatti, the Almani...whomever) would stage a raid and Roman interest would flare up for a campaign season.

I've always felt the Western Empire might have held together longer if Augustus' successors had listened to him. Oh, well.

Boru

[Anomalocaris]

I thought the Roman army under Germanicus mounted several large scale invasions into Germany on successive years just a few years of teutoberg disaster, and succeeded amongst other things in capturing Herman's wife.

I thought it was always known the Romans had invaded Germany in legion strength after teutoberg defeat.

[Lemonvariable72]

I thought the Roman army under Germanicus mounted several large scale invasions into Germany on successive years just a few years of teutoberg disaster, and succeeded amongst other things in capturing Herman's wife.

I thought it was always known the Romans had invaded Germany in legion strength after teutoberg defeat.

Sort of. Most of it came from roman descriptive sources, which often in others cases have stretched the truth. Furthermore sometimes they are straight full of shit and make up bad guys.

[Minimalist]

Germanicus did mount several expeditions to punish the German tribes which had ambushed Varus but apparently recovered the standards which were lost. But Augustus' who was still in command seems to have lost all interest in pushing on towards the Elbe. Roman writers tend to describe Germany as a dreary place. Supposedly in his Last Will and Testament Augustus enjoined his successors from advancing beyond the Rhine. It was probably all the hint that they needed but the idea that they did nothing except stand behind on their defenses on the river must be tossed. Like we do today, they encouraged division among their enemies and apparently lent a hand when needed.

[Anomalocaris]

I suspect it wasn't the will of Augustus that stayed the hand of the successive emperors. Rather it was the appreciation that Germany lacked the basic social and economic infrastructure, and as a result wouldn't repay imperial treasury for the cost of any conquest for many decades, if ever.

---

Sort of. Most of it came from roman descriptive sources, which often in others cases have stretched the truth. Furthermore sometimes they are straight full of shit and make up bad guys.

Divide by ten any roman claims of enemy body count, and the numbers would usually still be respectable for major compaigns.

[Minimalist]

Rather it was the appreciation that Germany lacked the basic social and economic infrastructure

Neither did Gaul but that did not stop them. The Romans, including Tiberius himself in tactical command, campaigned extensively between the Elbe and the Rhine prior to Teutobergerwald. Tiberius probably could be excused for drawing a negative conclusion about the region. For a soldier it probably did not seem worthwhile to push the border forward to another river line when they already had a perfectly serviceable river line in the Rhine. As you say, it would have required a lot of infrastructure development and it should have been obvious to all by that time that the wealth they wanted was in the East, not the dismal north.

All ancient stats are suspect. Some are flat out fucking ridiculous as when the OT claims that 'god' killed 70,000 people to punish David for fucking up a census. The entire population of Judah at the time would have been something under 20,000.