Important Debate Question

[Ksa]

I was debating about religion with my friends and I was faced with a situation where they said my arguments were too simplistic, for simple minds and that their intelligence is insulted by such simplicity and then insult me for being simple and stupid.

Do you guys know how to handle a situation where people tell you that your arguments are too simple, perhaps retarded, without providing any counter arguments?

The conversation was:

Me: I do not believe there is no God, I know there is no God.

Mike: How can you know? And why use a negative statement. Why be negative? Why not say yes?

Me: Saying "there is no God" is not a negative statement, it is the most positive statement a man can make on Earth, even more positive than "yes, I want to marry you". It gives you freedom, free-will and most of all, it allows you to judge what is right and what is wrong. It is freedom. Marriage would be a lesser freedom. Saying there is no God is the ultimate freedom.

Mike: It is a negative statement because you're saying No.

Me: How about you? Can you formulate the sentence "there is no God" without using a negation? Like..."there is..."

Mike: This is not the point, your argument is simple and stupid for simple minds. I cannot believe you think so simply.

Me: Then formulate that sentence without negation. You can't? Here is goes: "There is creation."

Mike: Whatever.

Me: God is a human invention. The first man, who built the first house, wondered who built the Earth and the stars, because he knew that the house wouldn't have built itself, he had to do it, so someone must have built the Earth. The simple man could not understand how something as magnificent as the Earth could have built itself from scratch without help or intervention, so he invented God to fill that gap.

Mike: "The first man who built the first house" You are talking like an idiot, You are insulting my intelligence. You sound like a priest in some God forgotten church reciting scripture for redneck countrymen who count using fingers. This is insulting. You are simple and stupid.

Me: That was a simple example to explain a complex mechanism, like in a math book, they are using very simple numeric examples to illustrate even extremely complex concepts. You get mad on those examples also because they are so simple that you immediately understand what the concept is?

Mike: It's a simplistic and retarded argument that's insulting everyone's intelligence.


Do you guys know what upset him? He's an important person to me and I don't want to upset him in the future.

[Silver]

Do you guys know how to handle a situation where people tell you that your arguments are too simple, perhaps retarded, without providing any counter arguments?

It is a mere evasion tactic to avoid being singled out as the actual ignorant one in the debate. Attack the other person's arguments before one's own arguments can be attacked. Otherwise known as Ad hominem.

Fuck his sensitivities.

[ThePinsir]

"If they're so simple, refute them."

[Ksa]

Do you guys know how to handle a situation where people tell you that your arguments are too simple, perhaps retarded, without providing any counter arguments?

It is a mere evasion tactic to avoid being singled out as the actual ignorant one in the debate. Attack the other person's arguments before one's own arguments can be attacked. Otherwise known as Ad hominem.

Fuck his sensitivities.

That friend is my dad, I can't tell him to go fuck his sensitivity ^.^

How would you go about it?

[ThePinsir]

I've been in a debate or two with really close friends. Things get kind of emotionally heated.

I think it's best to agree to disagree (when it comes to close friends and family).

Anyone else - fuck their sensitivity lol

[Clueless Morgan]

"If they're so simple, refute them."

^^-- This.

If your argument really is simplistic, there should be no reason not to refute it and move on to an argument they find more worthy of their time.

I also agree with Kitanetos that this person seems to be trying to deflect the conversation back on to your argument to deflect the fact that they have no refutation to give.

It also sounds like you've found a nerve with this person (your dad?) and he is reacting with an unwarranted amount of hostility for the "simplistic" argument you are putting forth. I'd say keep on it. Don't let this dissuade you from engaging because he's being hostile. Keep things civil and don't let them escalate to a shouting match (IOW, know when to back off) but keep revisiting the topic and whenever he replies with "this argument is so stupid and simple" than repeat that if it's really so simple than he shouldn't find it difficult to refute it and then the conversation can move forward.

[Ksa]

"If they're so simple, refute them."

^^-- This.

If your argument really is simplistic, there should be no reason not to refute it and move on to an argument they find more worthy of their time.

I also agree with Kitanetos that this person seems to be trying to deflect the conversation back on to your argument to deflect the fact that they have no refutation to give.

It also sounds like you've found a nerve with this person (your dad?) and he is reacting with an unwarranted amount of hostility for the "simplistic" argument you are putting forth. I'd say keep on it. Don't let this dissuade you from engaging because he's being hostile. Keep things civil and don't let them escalate to a shouting match (IOW, know when to back off) but keep revisiting the topic and whenever he replies with "this argument is so stupid and simple" than repeat that if it's really so simple than he shouldn't find it difficult to refute it and then the conversation can move forward.

I've already tried this, the way I formulated it was:

"If the argument is simple, then it is a gift to you because you can refute it very easily and enforce your own position."

No use. He just says that such a simplistic way of viewing life is too stupid for him to grasp and that, for him to take the time of the day to address it, it has to be more elevated and intelectual, that would "better reflect my university studies". He then tells me that it was a waste to send me to university for me to talk like a redneck countryman. Very insulting indeed lol. Both my parents proceed in saying that they will not tolerate me talking like an idiot in spite of my university studies.

It's basically just ad hominem after ad hominem. Non stop. I don't get what the problem is, can anyone spot it? Does it go beyond their refusal to accept my argument?

[RaisdCath]

That friend is my dad, I can't tell him to go fuck his sensitivity ^.^

How would you go about it?
[/quote]

Excellent! The fact that it's your dad your having this "discussion" with is solidly in your favor.
Let things cool down a bit.....then go to your dad and ask (humbly) for his help.
Ask him to give you at least two solid reasons why he believes there is a god.
Don't refute them right away!!
Tell him thanks and you'd like to think about his answers.
Let some time pass (during which you construct questions that point out the errors in his beliefs).
Then...back to dad to continue the discussion.....
Really....it's a great way to grow closer to dad. He does not get attacked, and you get a chance to practice your atheist apologetics with a guy who loves you!
Not a bad deal all around!

[Silver]

If that is the way he treats you, then you have every right to retaliate in kind. Perhaps he is being more aristocratic in his approach, but the meaning behind his words is still insulting and demeaning. I would personally gladly take the plebeian approach and inform him to shove his superiority complex up his ass and to get back to me when he can be less of a dick.

[KUSA]

I decided after a couple of debates with my dad about god that I won't do it anymore. I think it is better to just show him respect and not bring the subject up.