Evidence of the Bible's Validity

[The Valkyrie]

Anyone care to provide a logical counterpoint, or are you just going to try hard to be clever and use curse words in place of reason?

JimmyN, these people will not believe anything you can produce as evidence, they will not believe until they are face to face with God. Hope you stay around for awhile, what you are presenting is interesting, please let us see more.

GC

More fallacies.

We have never been provided evidence. We have been provided with personal claims, claims from ignorance, appeals to emotion and, as you have just demonstrated, pointless threats.

RJA

[JesusHChrist]

Yes, GC this is what you god-fuckers are reduced to -- variants of numerology.

Akin to astrologers telling astronomers how things "work". The astrologers think they have the "secrets" too, but can't make a prediction to save their life.

lol

So pathetic....

[KichigaiNeko]

Jimmy

[Minimalist]

Anyone care to provide a logical counterpoint, or are you just going to try hard to be clever and use curse words in place of reason?

JimmyN, these people will not believe anything you can produce as evidence, they will not believe until they are face to face with God. Hope you stay around for awhile, what you are presenting is interesting, please let us see more.

GC

Of course not. He's obviously as fucked up as you are, G-C.

[JimmyNeutron]

Sorry darlin'. There is no logical counterpoint to numerology, because numerology is illogical.

Numerology looks for hidden meaning in the numerical values of words. What I did was therefore NOT NUMEROLOGY. I was not looking for the meaning behind the numbers, merely the numbers behind the words.

The logical counterpoint was already provided by several people explaining why post hoc data mining (and it is post hoc) can be used to find all sorts of juicy tidbits.

You say post-hoc like it's a bad thing. Of course this is post-hoc! Any study of history is post-hoc, virtually everyone already knows this.

I mean, seriously, way to skim and just post a preconception. If you think this is evidentiary of a Holy Prophetic Code, you must also now accept that The Torah and Moby Dick are divine holy books, and follow the scripture of those too.

How much do you like cheeseburgers?

Nope, because I didn't use the Bible code or any of the things you mentioned. If you can explain how the prophecies that I mentioned somehow relate to Moby Dick then maybe you can salvage some credibility for your counterpoint.

And I like cheeseburgers very much.

Jimmy

Hello there!

THe counter argument is that the only thing numerology proves is that someone decided to waste their time inventing numerology.

For the third time, this is NOT numerology. See my previous explanation of what numerology is, which you already should know. Seriously, how many times are you guys going to mention numerology without even knowing what that is?

Yes, GC this is what you god-f***ers are reduced to -- variants of numerology.

JimmyN, these people will not believe anything you can produce as evidence, they will not believe until they are face to face with God. Hope you stay around for awhile, what you are presenting is interesting, please let us see more.

Hello, and thank you! Yes, I was hoping that maybe this forum had people who actually thought things through using logic and reason instead of like most atheists on the internet, talking big and loud without really saying anything.

[The Valkyrie]

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Sorry darlin'. There is no logical counterpoint to numerology, because numerology is illogical.

Numerology looks for hidden meaning in the numerical values of words. What I did was therefore NOT NUMEROLOGY. I was not looking for the meaning behind the numbers, merely the numbers behind the words.

The logical counterpoint was already provided by several people explaining why post hoc data mining (and it is post hoc) can be used to find all sorts of juicy tidbits.

You say post-hoc like it's a bad thing. Of course this is post-hoc! Any study of history is post-hoc, virtually everyone already knows this.

I mean, seriously, way to skim and just post a preconception. If you think this is evidentiary of a Holy Prophetic Code, you must also now accept that The Torah and Moby Dick are divine holy books, and follow the scripture of those too.

How much do you like cheeseburgers?

Nope, because I didn't use the Bible code or any of the things you mentioned. If you can explain how the prophecies that I mentioned somehow relate to Moby Dick then maybe you can salvage some credibility for your counterpoint.

And I like cheeseburgers very much.

Jimmy

Hello there!

THe counter argument is that the only thing numerology proves is that someone decided to waste their time inventing numerology.

For the third time, this is NOT numerology. See my previous explanation of what numerology is, which you already should know. Seriously, how many times are you guys going to mention numerology without even knowing what that is?

Yes, GC this is what you god-f***ers are reduced to -- variants of numerology.

JimmyN, these people will not believe anything you can produce as evidence, they will not believe until they are face to face with God. Hope you stay around for awhile, what you are presenting is interesting, please let us see more.

---

Hello, and thank you! Yes, I was hoping that maybe this forum had people who actually thought things through using logic and reason instead of like most atheists on the internet, talking big and loud without really saying anything.
Sounds like most theist claims to me.

[Lemonvariable72]

First off, hello jimmy, and welcome to our forum. You seem like a reasonaly intelligent person and I hope to see more of you here.

POINT 1#: The Bible contains various prophecies. If a sufficient number of these prophecies is true, than it is very likely that these prophecies are what they claim to be. Some kind of supernatural or divine revelation. Either that or they are a highly unlikely and EXTREMELY lucky guess. Can we agree on this first point?

To counter your point, there are three ways in which prophecies are "fulfilled".
1. They are vague and usually need to be interpreted. Much like for example modern day laws.
2. They are written after the event occurs.
3. They are essentially guesses. For example lets say country A is invading country B. A prophet comes up in country B says "Woah you will be destroyed!" Now if country B fails and is destroyed, he is a prophet. Howvere if country B wins the war he is just Harold Camping.

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This one is kinda complicated, so here goes:

The Book of Revelation was written around the year 95 A.D. You can read up on that HERE.

In Revelation 17 an angel is explaining the vision of John.

Jimmy lets do a little simple math here. The angel appeared to john right?
Jesus was born in 6 b.c killed at 33 so that means he died in 27 AD. The very youngest john couldve been 13 when he started following jesus and bear in mind it is unlikely he started that young. so he followed for 3 years before his death and john was 13 thirteen when the ministry started that would mean he was in 11 AD at the latest. That would make him 84 by the time revelations was written. The average roman life expectancy was 45 if you survived till the age of 5. Hell even with modern medical care most men today don't reach 84.

[JimmyNeutron]

First off, hello jimmy, and welcome to our forum. You seem like a reasonaly intelligent person and I hope to see more of you here.

POINT 1#: The Bible contains various prophecies. If a sufficient number of these prophecies is true, than it is very likely that these prophecies are what they claim to be. Some kind of supernatural or divine revelation. Either that or they are a highly unlikely and EXTREMELY lucky guess. Can we agree on this first point?

To counter your point, there are three ways in which prophecies are "fulfilled".
1. They are vague and usually need to be interpreted. Much like for example modern day laws.
2. They are written after the event occurs.
3. They are essentially guesses. For example lets say country A is invading country B. A prophet comes up in country B says "Woah you will be destroyed!" Now if country B fails and is destroyed, he is a prophet. Howvere if country B wins the war he is just Harold Camping.

Hello, and thank you. You appear to be the first person here to come up with an intelligent response.

1. That is true. Some of these prophecies are vague and up for interpretation.

2. Yes, I try to focus only on prophecies that must have been written before the event. The Book of Revelation, for example, was written sometime during the first or MAYBE second century. The fulfillment of most of those prophecies has not yet occurred.

3. Yes, some of them are pretty much guesses. The more specific they are, though, the harder they are to guess. For example, if I say "A car will drive past on this road in exactly ten minutes" that wouldn't be a very impressive prediction. But if I said it would be a Red Honda Pilot, then it would be less likely that it was a mere guess. More so if I described the car AND the driver. Certain prophecies in the Bible are so complex that it becomes very unlikely that it could just happen by coincidence.

Jimmy lets do a little simple math here. The angel appeared to john right?
Jesus was born in 6 b.c killed at 33 so that means he died in 27 AD. The very youngest john couldve been 13 when he started following jesus and bear in mind it is unlikely he started that young. so he followed for 3 years before his death and john was 13 thirteen when the ministry started that would mean he was in 11 AD at the latest. That would make him 84 by the time revelations was written. The average roman life expectancy was 45 if you survived till the age of 5. Hell even with modern medical care most men today don't reach 84.

Good point. The author of the book identifies himself as "John" but there is some debate as to which John this is. Many say that he is John the Apostle, while others claim that he could be another John, whom some refer to as John of Patmos. This also explains the debate over when the book was written. Likely, the people who believe that he is John the Apostle are the same ones who believe the book was written is 60 A.D. rather than 95 A.D.

[The Valkyrie]

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First off, hello jimmy, and welcome to our forum. You seem like a reasonaly intelligent person and I hope to see more of you here.


To counter your point, there are three ways in which prophecies are "fulfilled".
1. They are vague and usually need to be interpreted. Much like for example modern day laws.
2. They are written after the event occurs.
3. They are essentially guesses. For example lets say country A is invading country B. A prophet comes up in country B says "Woah you will be destroyed!" Now if country B fails and is destroyed, he is a prophet. Howvere if country B wins the war he is just Harold Camping.

---

Hello, and thank you. You appear to be the first person here to come up with an intelligent response.

---

1. That is true. Some of these prophecies are vague and up for interpretation.

2. Yes, I try to focus only on prophecies that must have been written before the event. The Book of Revelation, for example, was written sometime during the first or MAYBE second century. The fulfillment of most of those prophecies has not yet occurred.

3. Yes, some of them are pretty much guesses. The more specific they are, though, the harder they are to guess. For example, if I say "A car will drive past on this road in exactly ten minutes" that wouldn't be a very impressive prediction. But if I said it would be a Red Honda Pilot, then it would be less likely that it was a mere guess. More so if I described the car AND the driver. Certain prophecies in the Bible are so complex that it becomes very unlikely that it could just happen by coincidence.

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Sorry but you have had a number of responses here, including one from me, that addressed the vagueness of prophecies.

It seems you chose to ignore most of those, however.

[JimmyNeutron]

Sorry but you have had a number of responses here, including one from me, that addressed the vagueness of prophecies.

It seems you chose to ignore most of those, however.

Your responses were more intelligent than most, so I apologize.

Yes, I have had a number of responses. And yes, I certainly am ignoring most of them, because most of them are unintelligent, swear-ridden attacks on religion rather than logical discussion.

You bring up a valid point about the vagueness of prophecy. Certain prophecies are vague, but others are too specific to be coincidence. I will try to explain more of these further on in the discussion.