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Theocracy
#1
Theocracy
This is from my conversation on BahaiForums, and I have to say I was massively weirded out by it. Basically, a lot of Baha'is there think that a Cataclysm will cause the end of the current international society, after which the Baha'i Administrative World Order will become the new world government that everybody will turn to and everybody will never have any problems or criticisms and hold hangs and sing happy songs to God for all eternity.




This was my reply:

Frankly, I've heard this kind of pseudo-theocratic idealism from Baha'is in real life whom I've discussed this with to be comfortable with it at all. At the crux of the issue is that separation of church and state is a MUST in a government, especially one that purports to rule the entire world.

If a government made of incumbents who are never challenged and never allowed to be challenged believes that they are guided by God, if their citizenry is expected to abide by "religious principles" and never disagree in public, never have a public protest of anything, never truly participate in radically changing anything because God said so, what happens when a few people DO disagree, when they DON'T abide by religious principles, when they DO speak their mind against the Administrative Order? With such a big world, it would only be a question of when, not if.

What would happen under the Baha'i ruled world that people would supposedly "turn to" (and how would that work exactly)? If you ignore the viewpoint of minorities for the sake of the rest of the world, or hoping they go away, then you're ignoring potential problems. If they go to jail for petitioning loudly for a redress of grievances, then it's a dictatorship. Would things really get that bad that people would trade basic constitutional freedoms (speech, press, running for office, etc.) that have withstood the test of time for a worldwide government that makes them all agree, or "pre-reviews" all their books to make sure they don't cause conflict? What then of the "diversity" that is claimed to be protected? The actual possibilities are dystopic at best and nightmarishly dictatorial at best, and is probably why the Baha'i Faith's Administrative Order is better off NOT trying to run the entire world, because the system seems to work better on a smaller scale.

Look at the United States if you will for a moment. Sure, we've been very divided as a nation before. Look at things like the Whiskey Rebellion, the Occupy movement, the Tea Party, the Civil Rights protests and conflicts...and yet we've only had one Civil War whereas other nations that have had one party or dictatorial systems have had multiple. Why is this? Well, paradoxically, I think that inviting diversity and allowing everybody to have their political say, to rabble rouse, to form unions, to install and oust Presidents and Congresses with bitter campaigns, has allowed all of us to come together, to invent, to solve massive problems such as slavery, child labor, and Nazism.

Sure, we're not holding hands all the time and singing Kumbaya, and there's still a lot of work to do and a lot of tough problems to solve, but if you told me that tomorrow world peace could be established, but that everybody would have to give up American-style democracy and trade it for theocracy of this type in order to do so, I'd say no thanks. Because the thing is, world peace as in the absence of conflict will never happen in my opinion. But we can get pretty darn close, and this is how.
Luke: You don't believe in the Force, do you?

Han Solo: Kid, I've flown from one side of this galaxy to the other, and I've seen a lot of strange stuff, but I've never seen *anything* to make me believe that there's one all-powerful Force controlling everything. 'Cause no mystical energy field controls *my* destiny. It's all a lot of simple tricks and nonsense.
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#2
RE: Theocracy
These people are scary as shit......
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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#3
RE: Theocracy
(July 21, 2014 at 3:37 am)StealthySkeptic Wrote: This is from my conversation on BahaiForums, and I have to say I was massively weirded out by it. Basically, a lot of Baha'is there think that a Cataclysm will cause the end of the current international society, after which the Baha'i Administrative World Order will become the new world government that everybody will turn to and everybody will never have any problems or criticisms and hold hangs and sing happy songs to God for all eternity.

You are a good member and I appreciate your threads, but I stopped reading after this paragraph (the first), not because I wasn't going to enjoy the thread, but because I'm sick of these religious crazies, form the moment I saw 'Baha'i Adminstrative World Order will become the new world government' I quit reading into further stupidity. And they say Baha'i are different and special, the true faith
Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you

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#4
RE: Theocracy
(July 21, 2014 at 7:19 am)Rhythm Wrote: These people are scary as shit......

They're nice people, but I always worried about encountering Baha'is who held theocratic ideas.

(July 21, 2014 at 8:01 am)Blackout Wrote:
(July 21, 2014 at 3:37 am)StealthySkeptic Wrote: This is from my conversation on BahaiForums, and I have to say I was massively weirded out by it. Basically, a lot of Baha'is there think that a Cataclysm will cause the end of the current international society, after which the Baha'i Administrative World Order will become the new world government that everybody will turn to and everybody will never have any problems or criticisms and hold hangs and sing happy songs to God for all eternity.

You are a good member and I appreciate your threads, but I stopped reading after this paragraph (the first), not because I wasn't going to enjoy the thread, but because I'm sick of these religious crazies, form the moment I saw 'Baha'i Adminstrative World Order will become the new world government' I quit reading into further stupidity. And they say Baha'i are different and special, the true faith

Yeah, well they couch in terms that basically mean, "All (Abrahamic) religions are equal but some are more equal than others." Also it seems that Rhythm has joined the forum and schooled someone on the use of the transitive law. Thanks buddy!
Luke: You don't believe in the Force, do you?

Han Solo: Kid, I've flown from one side of this galaxy to the other, and I've seen a lot of strange stuff, but I've never seen *anything* to make me believe that there's one all-powerful Force controlling everything. 'Cause no mystical energy field controls *my* destiny. It's all a lot of simple tricks and nonsense.
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#5
RE: Theocracy
(July 21, 2014 at 8:08 am)StealthySkeptic Wrote: They're nice people,
Neighbors are often quoted as saying the same about serial killers. LOL, point being, it's debatable.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Reply
#6
RE: Theocracy
(July 21, 2014 at 8:46 am)Rhythm Wrote:
(July 21, 2014 at 8:08 am)StealthySkeptic Wrote: They're nice people,
Neighbors are often quoted as saying the same about serial killers. LOL, point being, it's debatable.

Very true, pedo priests tend to be really nice people
Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you

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#7
RE: Theocracy
"Too long."
[Image: extraordinarywoo-sig.jpg]
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#8
RE: Theocracy
(July 21, 2014 at 8:58 am)Blackout Wrote:
(July 21, 2014 at 8:46 am)Rhythm Wrote: Neighbors are often quoted as saying the same about serial killers. LOL, point being, it's debatable.

Very true, pedo priests tend to be really nice people

Well at least the Baha'is I know are definitely not serial killers lol.
Luke: You don't believe in the Force, do you?

Han Solo: Kid, I've flown from one side of this galaxy to the other, and I've seen a lot of strange stuff, but I've never seen *anything* to make me believe that there's one all-powerful Force controlling everything. 'Cause no mystical energy field controls *my* destiny. It's all a lot of simple tricks and nonsense.
Reply
#9
RE: Theocracy
(July 21, 2014 at 8:01 am)Blackout Wrote: ... I'm sick of these religious crazies, form the moment I saw 'Baha'i Adminstrative World Order will become the new world government' I quit reading into further stupidity.

It is a stupid idea, but it is not what the Bahai teachings say. On the contrary, the separation of church and state is one of the cornerstones of the Bahai principles. The Bahai founding figures had a definite vision of how a world federal government would work, and they had a plan for how the Bahai community would administer itself, internally, as a religious community. They are very obviously two different things, but the less knowledgeable or less intelligent Bahais sometimes mash them. One is called the Bahai world Commonwealth (capital C), the other is the commonwealth of nations - and mixing up the Bahai texts that refer to one or the other causes a lot of confusion. I have linked to a blog article that summarises the nature of the two commonwealths in the Bahai literature. All the references there are links to sources that give more context.

Enjoy
~ Sen
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#10
RE: Theocracy
I'm still supremely skeptical of any set of doctrines that can be hand-washed away by saying "Those stupid members of <insert religion here> just don't get it".
In every country and every age, the priest had been hostile to Liberty.
- Thomas Jefferson
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