Libertarian Socialism

[stonedape]

I'm never going to defend the anarcho-capitalist position, because I think it's stupid, but those are poor examples. I don't think there has ever been an attempt at Anacho-Capitalism. It would mean that you would be getting rid of the government. The countries that buy goods from those countries, such as the U.S. an Europe definitely still have functioning governments. The countries that produce those goods, such as China, are as likely as not to be socialist countries.

Ancap was the default in early America. If the rent was too damn high and the pay was too damn low you could work for yourself. Squat, build and trade. No permits or licenses necessary.
Before you bring up slavery. Just keep in mind that slavery is a product of hierarchy, not anarchy. Slavery is not voluntary trade. It was a total violation of the natural rights our constitution is based on. So that was the exception to the ancap default.

The industrial revolution created a justified insurrection against capitalist hiearchy. There comes a time when it makes sense to fire your boss and take ownership of your work and improve your conditions. That's all libertarian socialism really is. No redistribution of wealth and no state control over the markets.
Marxism took it way too far. They became the tyranny of the many until they wound up controlled by the tyranny of the few(again). They failed because they didn't understand the means of consumption are the means of production and the other way around.
You can't sell the first toilet bowl to everybody at once. You can't redistribute a Ferrari equally. The baker isn't going to be very motivated when their monopoly on bread doesn't offer any reward.

Did you just call the southern states in the U.S. a hellscape? Hahaha. Hyperbole much. Did you know that countries exist that aren't part of the pampered western world?

I love hyperbole, sorry if you don't. But have you seen http://www.peopleofwalmart.com/

In all seriousness, the philosophy of imposing religion on others is what I take issue with. The bible says some fucked up shit. Being forced worship that silly book is my idea of hell. Luckily the constitution protects the rest of us from it.

[CapnAwesome]

Ancap was the default in early America. If the rent was too damn high and the pay was too damn low you could work for yourself. Squat, build and trade. No permits or licenses necessary.
Before you bring up slavery. Just keep in mind that slavery is a product of hierarchy, not anarchy. Slavery is not voluntary trade. It was a total violation of the natural rights our constitution is based on. So that was the exception to the ancap default.

I'm mean, not really. You could say that it's highly capitalistic but anachric in addition? Not really even close. The U.S. invaded Canada in the war of 1812, had a central bank, and most importantly had a government . None of that is in line with anachro-capitalism. Even if somehow you could get around those problems the post I was replying too said that Anarcho-Capitalism is one of the most frequently tried systems, so you would have to come up with several other examples when it was tried. I mean I think Anachro-capitalism is stupid and extremely flawed, but that isn't an excuse for historical ignorance.

[The Grand Nudger]

Gotta add, the squatters got booted. We have a long and storied history of eviction for evictions sake in this country (a narrative that predates the formation of our country btw, which our county, out of the goodness of it's heart - decided to see through even after splitting off from the initiating parties). Hoping you don't get caught isn't exactly the same as not needing the licenses, permits, titles, etc. If you haven't already, check out the history of the first westward expansion into the wild frontier, and by wild frontier, I mean Pennsylvania.

[stonedape]

capn-
My point was if you wanted to shrug off the system it wouldn't be difficult. Pioneers couldn't call the cops, but they had guns. They didn't have to trip on healthcare because medicine hadn't broken out of witch doctor status. They didn't need a drivers license to drive a stage coach. They didn't even have social security numbers. Many of the public goods were developed voluntarily. Once people found it in their interest they'd build schools, the same way they built churches.
I will say that the more advanced a society is the more it is governed. Slavery and debt is very productive. No question about it. That's how you get something for nothing. Not that I want to go back to the stone age, but I believe we've evolved to think outside of the box. But you really do have to think about what got us out of the stone age.
Here are a couple videos that address primitive examples of statelessness and marketless economies.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyzi9GNZFMU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94BtOtGVqLw