Dodging theodicy: 'On Faith' panel stumbles over Haiti and God

[Zen Badger]

Ah so you have to add in other bits about God to get to see why it's bad ....riiiiiiiiiiiiite

No... what we're talking about here, without introducing any irrelevant ideas, is that nature can't be bad because it just 'is' is precisely the same as God can't be seen to be bad for the exact same reason.

If you say God is based on bullshit then you are also saying that science is based on bullshit.

But God is a conscious being(so it is claimed), he would have decided to destroy Haiti. So if he is

a god of love and mercy where are either of those attributes?

Nature is just a bunch of forces. The concepts of good or bad can't apply.

I don't see how by claiming God is based on bullshit we are claiming Science is the same.

[fr0d0]

If plate tectonics didn't exist the planet wouldn't support life... is the argument both for God and Nature. They both just 'are'. It's egotistical to project human attributes to the phenomena, and fallacious to assume that God 'chose'. Assuming 'God': everything (as in nature) is him so 'deciding' is just nature enacting it's 'course'.

[Zen Badger]

If plate tectonics didn't exist the planet wouldn't support life... is the argument both for God and Nature. They both just 'are'. It's egotistical to project human attributes to the phenomena, and fallacious to assume that God 'chose'. Assuming 'God': everything (as in nature) is him so 'deciding' is just nature enacting it's 'course'.

But the bible applies human attributes to God all the time.

Mercy, jealousy, love, anger, etc, etc,etc.

The christian god is pretty much a distillation of the worst of humanity.

Whereas a universe spanning god(which is what you appear to be advocating)

not only would have none of these but would be unaware of humans at all.

[fr0d0]

I'm not saying that God is _only_ the universe. But assuming the universe is Gods creation the mechanisms of this creation are the same as the mechanisms we observe in nature.

The bible applies Gods attributes to humans.

[Rhizomorph13]

Fr0d0,

You have no stable concept of God. Stop kidding yourself. Trying to comprehend your worldview and your idea of god is like trying to shove a stick of butter up a wildcat's ass with a red hot poker!

Rhizo

[fr0d0]

So you need me to have rigid ideas now? Strange how this keeps flipping depending on what you want to see huh?

[KichigaiNeko]

Ah so you have to add in other bits about God to get to see why it's bad ....riiiiiiiiiiiiite

No... what we're talking about here, without introducing any irrelevant ideas, is that nature can't be bad because it just 'is' is precisely the same as God can't be seen to be bad for the exact same reason.

If you say God is based on bullshit then you are also saying that science is based on bullshit.

You really are quite perverted ya know

[Edwardo Piet]

You don't need a 'rigid' as in unmoving and narrow-minded view fr0d0, it would just be helpful if you didn't contradict yourself all the time and have such a flexible view that God cannot be blamed for any bad that goes on because it makes no more sense to than to do so to 'nature' according to you (so you are labelling nature/the universe as "God") and then on the other hand say yes he indeed has human attributes (or we humans have his attributes, whatever).

Are you labelling the universe as "God" or is God an actual deity? Or if it's neither or a mixture of the two, please do explain what you are actually talking about....

EvF

[Zen Badger]

Frodo, you have yet to tell us why.....

"If you say God is based on bullshit then you are also saying that science is based on bullshit."

one proposition derives automatically from the other.

[fr0d0]

Because Zen what you're calling bullshit is the attribute of God that he is Nature. Yes you add in some extra will of his to actually choose to kill and destroy... which to me is incredibly childish and unsupported logic.