The Newly Departed thread: announcements (departures)

[Pat Mustard]

Happy to report that Vulcanlogician has checked in and he gave me this message:

"I’ve removed [AF.org](http://AF.org) from my bookmarks. I don’t want to even look at that place for a while. If anyone asks, tell them I’ll be back sooner or later, at least to check my PMs."

Good enough for me.  So now that my survivor's guilt is relieved I'll be taking a break until such time as I feel like coming back. It was a pretty intense couple of days for me.  The exhilaration of finding that bright shiny new forum all wrapped up with a bow on it (thank you again, Tibs), followed by the angry resentment on the part of what felt like the overwhelming majority, followed by the bright shiny new toy being bashed and set on fire by the neighborhood punks.

What is really laughable is the vandalism was done in the name of a higher purpose, free speech.  The obsession so many of you had with those of us who went against the herd was startling.  It really mirrored the JW's practice of shunning.  You guys (and I assume you will know which you are and aren't) are such intolerant fundamentalists.  We're often telling theists how there is only one thing we all have in common and I'm very happy to remember that now.  I am not an atheist in the image of the pack that hounded this effort.  You all go on back into your cave now and regale one another with your tales of daring do.  You have driven off the scary shadows once again.  

But there are a good number here I'm happy to rub elbows with in RL anytime.  That hasn't changed.  And I'll be working on forgiving the worst of you because I don't practice shunning.  But for now, fuck you very much.

I think this is a gross oversimplification.  From what I understand, Tibs unilaterally created that section without the support of staff, which, as far as I know, hasn't been how any new rules or subsections have been implemented in my time here.

There's also the fundamental question of who is this new section for?  We already have a debate section.  In fact, the very Christians who left used it to discuss their feelings regarding the forum before they left.  Seems to me like it's working as intended.  Moreover, I find it odd that the same people who have lamented not having a serious conversation hardly ever took advantage of the existing apparatus.  Given that they coordinated both their exit and return, one would think they could figure out who would want to be involved in discussing topics like "Was sin necessary for knowledge?"

And it's not like there aren't tools in place to deal with abuse if it's actually happening.  We can ignore people.  It's not a perfect implementation, but it's there.  We can report people.

Frankly, I think a lot of their disappointment is that a lot of us don't take their religion nearly as seriously as they do.  Where they see centuries of philosophy, scholarship, and tradition, we see a layer cake of absurdity which has created an institutionalized system of actual abuse that deserves derision (not just the RCC).  And for those who do take it seriously, again, there's the debate section.  Or, perhaps, the philosophy section, which seems to be more serious by virtue of the subject matter.

So, for me (and I'm guessing others), it's not a matter of free speech, but rather unilaterally creating a new area purposely set aside for a handful of people no longer willing to engage the rest of us according to the terms we all agreed to when we made our user accounts, despite there being mechanisms already in place that address their concerns.

Plus there are plenty of christian forums where they can impose their religion without dissent. From the start that was my problem with the "civil" "discussion" subforum. It was neither, just simply a place for a certain type of theist, a type who couldn't handle differing opinions, to impose their viewpoint while shutting out dissent.

The mods thought we could get an actual civil discussion place out of it, the users most interested in the section had no intention of being civil.

[DodosAreDead]

DoDo,
I don't think I know you at all, but thanks and can I get $20 ? You know us religious tpyes, always looking for a hand out as min would say

Not knowing a majestic ancient extinct species? Shame on you for being such an ignoramus. (Sorry iggy, you've been usurped.) 
Haha no in all seriousness though, I just meant you as a poster, based on what I've seen since you've started (re)posing on AF, and not you as a person, since I don't know you either. You just seem like a chill and genuinely nice theist. (So does CL, but there's been a lot of drama to call her chill at the moment).

[Minimalist]

You know us religious tpyes, always looking for a hand out as min would say

Napoleon said it first, Tacky.



Vive L'Empereur!

[outtathereligioncloset]

***sigh***

[A Theist]

Never said I was holding anything against anyone or getting upset. I'm amused by how easily predictable the situation was.

A Theist, there were a number of reasons staff and many members didn't like the subforum. Those kinks are being worked out while we wait for the forum at large to provide suggestions, not just a select 6 or 7 exiled members. If anyone doesn't have the patience to wait for that, it was never their intention to stay.

It was more than just a mere 6 or 7 "exiled members", Shell. I counted at least 20 current and former AF members who are now posting on another recently created atheist site. I'm sure you know the one. Just check out the introductions thread there and see for yourself. It wasn't just Theists who left. Some of those members who are now posting on the other site aren't coming back. Others of us are waiting to see how the "kinks" get worked out here.

[GrandizerII]

Never said I was holding anything against anyone or getting upset. I'm amused by how easily predictable the situation was.

A Theist, there were a number of reasons staff and many members didn't like the subforum. Those kinks are being worked out while we wait for the forum at large to provide suggestions, not just a select 6 or 7 exiled members. If anyone doesn't have the patience to wait for that, it was never their intention to stay.

It was more than just a mere 6 or 7 "exiled members", Shell. I counted at least 20 current and former AF members who are now posting on another recently created atheist site. I'm sure you know the one. Just check out the introductions thread there and see for yourself. It wasn't just Theists who left. Some of those members who are now posting on the other site aren't coming back. Others of us are waiting to see how the "kinks" get worked out here.

Not all AF members who post there have stopped posting here. And some who have taken a break may come back here to post again sooner or later (as explicitly stated by them), though it seems like there may be one or two who have stated they have no intention of coming back here. Furthermore, some of the former AF members who have left left before the civil subsection was shut down anyway (their departures had more to do with the perceived general atmosphere of this forum, and for all sorts of reasons, some opposite of others). Just putting things in perspective.

[A Theist]

DoDo,
I don't think I know you at all, but thanks and can I get $20 ? You know us religious tpyes, always looking for a hand out as min would say

Not knowing a majestic ancient extinct species? Shame on you for being such an ignoramus. (Sorry iggy, you've been usurped.) 
Haha no in all seriousness though, I just meant you as a poster, based on what I've seen since you've started (re)posing on AF, and not you as a person, since I don't know you either. You just seem like a chill and genuinely nice theist. (So does CL, but there's been a lot of drama to call her chill at the moment).

You can't blame CL for what happened. The drama started when a civility section was created only to have it shut down just a couple days later over the complaints from some members here. In response to that backlash, there was a second one where other members who wanted a civility section left AF for another recently created atheist forum....and it wasn't just Theists who left. The AF staff are trying to get it all worked out, so hopefully, they can come up with something.

---

It was more than just a mere 6 or 7 "exiled members", Shell. I counted at least 20 current and former AF members who are now posting on another recently created atheist site. I'm sure you know the one. Just check out the introductions thread there and see for yourself. It wasn't just Theists who left. Some of those members who are now posting on the other site aren't coming back. Others of us are waiting to see how the "kinks" get worked out here.

Not all AF members who post there have stopped posting here. And some who have taken a break may come back here to post again sooner or later (as explicitly stated by them), though it seems like there may be one or two who have stated they have no intention of coming back here. Furthermore, some of the former AF members who have left left before the civil subsection was shut down anyway (their departures had more to do with the perceived general atmosphere of this forum, and for all sorts of reasons, some opposite of others). Just putting things in perspective.

That's fair, but you also know those members are waiting to see how things get worked out here. If the other forum is providing a friendlier atmosphere than the one here then I don't see those members returning. Just take a look through their introductions thread and read what some have said about the atmosphere here. Their complaints are the same as those of the former members who left here before the civility section was started.

[Angrboda]

I will also point out that the evolving TTA refugee situation is involved in there somewhere. That you, A Theist, can only imagine one possible explanation for the changes that have occurred of late only suggests that you lack imagination.

[A Theist]

I will also point out that the evolving TTA refugee situation is involved in there somewhere. That you, A Theist, can only imagine one possible explanation for the changes that have occurred of late only suggests that you lack imagination.

Then maybe you can put your own imagination to work and figure out how to keep members rather than losing members. Dismissing this only suggests that you have no lack of naivety.

[Shell B]

A forum this big will always lose members. There's nothing we can do to change Internet culture and human nature. We could never please everyone. That we're doing the best we can should be enough, but it never is.