Differing degrees of rape?

[Jackalope]

No, of course it doesn't, except perhaps in some cases of statutory rape (e.g. when I was 15 and had consensual sex with my 15 year old girlfriend, it was technically a crime - but it was fully consensual).

Huh.. two underage people having consensual sex is a crime?

In some jurisdictions, yes - if the parents (or a moral crusader) get wind of it.

[The Valkyrie]

No, of course it doesn't, except perhaps in some cases of statutory rape (e.g. when I was 15 and had consensual sex with my 15 year old girlfriend, it was technically a crime - but it was fully consensual).

Huh.. two underage people having consensual sex is a crime?

Technically, yes.

[lifesagift]

underage sex is not rape !

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

There aren't degrees of rape, that's simply idiotic. You can't be slightly raped, severely raped, moderately raped, and so forth. As has been said, lack of consent (or withdrawn consent) is what constitutes rape.

And underage people cannot have consensual sex because, by definition, they are under the age of consent. Even if they both agree, both want it, and no violence or force is involved, it is legally rape because consent cannot be given. This is why underage people can't enter into legal contracts, get married, and can't do any of a number of things doable by those who have attained majority.

Boru

[lifesagift]

There aren't degrees of rape, that's simply idiotic. You can't be slightly raped, severely raped, moderately raped, and so forth. As has been said, lack of consent (or withdrawn consent) is what constitutes rape.

And underage people cannot have consensual sex because, by definition, they are under the age of consent. Even if they both agree, both want it, and no violence or force is involved, it is legally rape.

Boru

Well sums it all up right there. Thank-you and good night !

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There aren't degrees of rape, that's simply idiotic. You can't be slightly raped, severely raped, moderately raped, and so forth. As has been said, lack of consent (or withdrawn consent) is what constitutes rape.

And underage people cannot have consensual sex because, by definition, they are under the age of consent. Even if they both agree, both want it, and no violence or force is involved, it is legally rape because consent cannot be given. This is why underage people can't enter into legal contracts, get married, and can't do any of a number of things doable by those who have attained majority.

Boru

Actually, before I do go to bed, let me ask one thing... degrees of rape not allowed, but degrees of violence is?

ABH.. GBH?

Or are you suggesting that rape has always an 'added crime'?

---

There aren't degrees of rape, that's simply idiotic. You can't be slightly raped, severely raped, moderately raped, and so forth. As has been said, lack of consent (or withdrawn consent) is what constitutes rape.

And underage people cannot have consensual sex because, by definition, they are under the age of consent. Even if they both agree, both want it, and no violence or force is involved, it is legally rape because consent cannot be given. This is why underage people can't enter into legal contracts, get married, and can't do any of a number of things doable by those who have attained majority.

Boru

Actually, before I do go to bed, let me ask one thing... degrees of rape not allowed, but degrees of violence are?

ABH.. GBH?

Or are you suggesting that rape has always an 'added crime'?

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

Actually, before I do go to bed, let me ask one thing... degrees of rape not allowed, but degrees of violence are?

Yes, because violence can have mitigating circumstances, and the degree of violence is visible and can be agree upon. This is manifestly NOT the case with rape.

Suppose you outrageously offend me and I break your jaw. The judge or jury might very well decide that you provoked me beyond what is reasonable. In another scenario, I break your jaw for no discernible reason - we're simply passing on the street, I clock you and my only defense for my action is that I felt like it. I would merit (and hopefully get) a more severe punishment.

I doesn't and shouldn't work that way with rape. If the most beautiful woman you've ever seen appears in your bedroom wearing nothing but a bottle of scotch and a hair ribbon, locks her ankles behind her head and begins moaning ecstatically, and tells you 'Don't touch me' your best bet is to head into the jacks for a quick wank. Because if you touch her, it's rape.

Or are you suggesting that rape has always an 'added crime'?

Nothing of the sort. Rape is still rape whether some other crime is involved or not. The act of rape is heinous enough to stand on its own.


Boru

[c172]

Does anyone, like me, think that the circumstance of rape should be taken into account during sentencing?

Don't get me wrong, if rape was an 8 out of 10 on the scale of crime, then I'm advocating a range of 7.6 to 8.9 for various rape crimes...

My reasoning is this...

Scenario A... a loving couple, in bed, she's asleep, they like rough, random, sex. He wakes up at 2am, hands wander... penetrates, she resists, but that's part of their 'game'... but she didn't want it !

Still rape. Though I wonder if either party's state of alertness would come into play.

Scenario B... Uni guy meets Uni girl... boozed up at a party, all over each other. Go back to a room, girl passes out, guy does it anyway !

Rape, plus alcohol abuse. Throw the book at him!

Scenario C... Ageing rock star on tour.. young girls at stage door, clearly sexually aware, drugs/drink in abundance, they shag and both consent... but she's 15!

Still rape. Especially since you aid the rock star was "aging". In that case, anything under 18 should be deemed child rape, and subject to at least 25 to life. If it were a 19 year old and a 17 year old, I don't have too much of a problem. State laws, IIRC, do vary as far as consent. Question is, how much, and how much should they vary? 16 ok?

Scenario D.. gang of lads get given some date rape drug... go out, target three girls, spike their drink, get them in a cab, to a local park, and do the deed !

LWOP! Death if the girls are minor.

Scenario E... guy wants a particular woman at any cost.. stalks her, eventually takes a knife, she gets off the bus, he drags her into a hedge at knifepoint and does his worst.

LWOP! Death if girl is a minor.

Scenario F... Weird guy in the town abducts a 7 yr old, locks her in the cellar, rapes her most days for 30 years until she escapes, and rapes her daughters he's fathered.

Wow! Even worse than that guy in Ohio. Death.

Ok, so please replace 'he' for 'she' in the scenarios where it may be appropriate.

But one word, one crime doesn't really cover this lot does it?

There are certainly varying degrees, but every single one is without excuse, and should be punished severely. I support the death penalty for certain instances of rape without death, but never mandatory except maybe upon a second conviction (and obviously as an aggravation of murder).

[The Valkyrie]

underage sex is not rape !

See where people are saying that "technically" it is.

[Thumpalumpacus]

Many crimes have different shades of gravity. Homicide can range from involuntary manslaughter to 1st degree murder, for instance. Petty larceny, grand theft, armed robbery, and so on.

Except possibly A, every scenario in the OP is rape in one form or another.

[Chad32]

I think the details of pretty much any crime matter just as much as the crime itsself. This includes rape. Some new couple where they're both horny, and the girl starts saying no, but the guy feels like maybe if he just does it right she'll change her mind. It's rape and it's wrong, and he should be made to realize it was wrong, but it's still different from some guy raping a random woman in an alley with a knife to her throat. And statutory rape is a bit different from regular rape too, because no matter how much the younger person really really wants it, they can't give legal consent.

One of the most common excuses I hear is "she was asking for it by wearing what she wore". This doesn't fly with me. If I see a woman walking down the street butt naked, it's still up to me to restrain myself, so I don't buy that a woman is asking for it if her skirt is a bit short or she shows some cleavage. Is there a rape epidemic on beaches where women wear bikinis? Not that I've heard.