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2 timothy 3:16
#11
RE: 2 timothy 3:16
Find the sect with either 1) the most money, 2) the most political influence, or 3) the most troops and ask them which scriptures are 'God breathed'. They'll be happy to tell you.

Boru
‘But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods or no gods. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.’ - Thomas Jefferson
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#12
RE: 2 timothy 3:16
(October 21, 2014 at 8:56 am)Drich Wrote: couple what the proff said with verse 10 to 16 and you will have your answer:


10 But you have carefully followed my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, love, perseverance, 11 persecutions, afflictions, which happened to me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra—what persecutions I endured. And out of them all the Lord delivered me. 12 Yes, and all who desire to live godly in Christ Jesus will suffer persecution. 13 But evil men and impostors will grow worse and worse, deceiving and being deceived. 14 But you must continue in the things which you have learned and been assured of, knowing from whom you have learned them, 15 and that from childhood you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.

New King James Version (NKJV)
The Holy Bible, New King James Version Copyright © 1982 by Thomas Nelson, Inc.


The "Holy Scriptures"/The OT, and what was learned under the direction of Paul is what is being refered to here.

Except 2 things. First off the Christian OT didnt exist at the time, and 2 Paul didn't write this letter
To-morrow, and to-morrow, and to-morrow,
Creeps in this petty pace from day to day,
To the last syllable of recorded time;
And all our yesterdays have lighted fools
The way to dusty death. Out, out, brief candle!
Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player,
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage,
And then is heard no more. It is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.
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#13
RE: 2 timothy 3:16
At the risk of tipping our hand to the believers,

isn't to the atheist advantage to have every 'inconvenient' jot and tittle in scripture to carry the gravitas of the 10 commandments ??

Each and every particle of ludicrous, contradiction, logical fallacy and impossibility I see as another millstone around the necks of the christers. I think the most rigid and draconian 'interpretation' of Timothy 3:16 is what we want. Anything that helps empty pews on Sundays counts as a 'win' for our side.

No ??
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#14
RE: 2 timothy 3:16
(November 3, 2014 at 12:48 am)vorlon13 Wrote: At the risk of tipping our hand to the believers,

isn't to the atheist advantage to have every 'inconvenient' jot and tittle in scripture to carry the gravitas of the 10 commandments ??

Each and every particle of ludicrous, contradiction, logical fallacy and impossibility I see as another millstone around the necks of the christers. I think the most rigid and draconian 'interpretation' of Timothy 3:16 is what we want. Anything that helps empty pews on Sundays counts as a 'win' for our side.

No ??
Well its too the christian advantage as well. Without the belief system comes apart.
To-morrow, and to-morrow, and to-morrow,
Creeps in this petty pace from day to day,
To the last syllable of recorded time;
And all our yesterdays have lighted fools
The way to dusty death. Out, out, brief candle!
Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player,
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage,
And then is heard no more. It is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.
Reply
#15
RE: 2 timothy 3:16
(October 21, 2014 at 7:18 am)Lemonvariable72 Wrote: 2 timothy 3:16
All scripture is god breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking and training in righteousness.

The Wholly Babble Wrote:1 Corinthians 7:12
But to the rest speak I, not the Lord...

So it's all inspired, except for the parts that aren't?
Atheist Forums Hall of Shame:
"The trinity can be equated to having your cake and eating it too."
...      -Lucent, trying to defend the Trinity concept
"(Yahweh's) actions are good because (Yahweh) is the ultimate standard of goodness. That’s not begging the question"
...       -Statler Waldorf, Christian apologist
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#16
RE: 2 timothy 3:16
Quote:No ??

It's a toss up. The real nuts think this shit is handed down by fucking god himself so they are disconcerted to learn that it is just a forgery. It's the old "when one lie is detected a thousand are suspected" mantra.

They are decidedly uncomfortable at the thought that their carefully laundered bullshit might not be true.
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#17
RE: 2 timothy 3:16
(November 3, 2014 at 12:59 am)DeistPaladin Wrote:
(October 21, 2014 at 7:18 am)Lemonvariable72 Wrote: 2 timothy 3:16
All scripture is god breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking and training in righteousness.

The Wholly Babble Wrote:1 Corinthians 7:12
But to the rest speak I, not the Lord...

So it's all inspired, except for the parts that aren't?
Just read that chapter to get the context. So much wrong in so little space!

Instead of going over all the asburdites of it myself i simply link the skeptics annotated bible, which covers them nicely

http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/1cor/7.html
To-morrow, and to-morrow, and to-morrow,
Creeps in this petty pace from day to day,
To the last syllable of recorded time;
And all our yesterdays have lighted fools
The way to dusty death. Out, out, brief candle!
Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player,
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage,
And then is heard no more. It is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.
Reply
#18
RE: 2 timothy 3:16
(November 2, 2014 at 6:21 pm)Lemonvariable72 Wrote:
(October 21, 2014 at 8:56 am)Drich Wrote: couple what the proff said with verse 10 to 16 and you will have your answer:


10 But you have carefully followed my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, love, perseverance, 11 persecutions, afflictions, which happened to me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra—what persecutions I endured. And out of them all the Lord delivered me. 12 Yes, and all who desire to live godly in Christ Jesus will suffer persecution. 13 But evil men and impostors will grow worse and worse, deceiving and being deceived. 14 But you must continue in the things which you have learned and been assured of, knowing from whom you have learned them, 15 and that from childhood you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.

New King James Version (NKJV)
The Holy Bible, New King James Version Copyright © 1982 by Thomas Nelson, Inc.


The "Holy Scriptures"/The OT, and what was learned under the direction of Paul is what is being refered to here.

Except 2 things. First off the Christian OT didnt exist at the time, and 2 Paul didn't write this letter

[Image: Facepalm-GIFS-1.gif]
Soo.. In 1Tim 1:1 where it says:

1 Greetings from Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus. I am an apostle by the command of God our Savior and Christ Jesus our hope.

2 To Timothy, a true son to me in the faith we share.

It does not mean Paul an Apstole of Jesus Christ????

Oh, and the best part.. Your are saying the Jews did not have access to the "Tanakh?" in the time of Paul?


http://www.jewfaq.org/torah.htm

ROFLOL What even Better Minnie kudo'ed you which means he thinks as you do.
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#19
RE: 2 timothy 3:16
So let me ask a question to the christians. Are the letters that were not included in this current bible written by the breath of god? If not why? Who is qualified to know what is and is not from god?

According to you, god is omnipotent so all of the letters must have been inspired by god. Why not include all of them? Am I the only one who is bothered that a group of men took a group of letters and molded a religion as best they could to fit their needs? And the job they did was quite flawed if we are being honest.
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#20
RE: 2 timothy 3:16
(November 3, 2014 at 10:22 am)polar bear Wrote: Am I the only one who is bothered that a group of men took a group of letters and molded a religion as best they could to fit their needs? And the job they did was quite flawed if we are being honest.

As it must be so, because Christianity was molded by many men over many generations on a framework that was itself a hodgepodge of previous contradictory faiths. Christianity is the bastard child of Judaism and Paganism (the maladjusted offspring later turned on and tried to destroy both parents but that's another topic). As a religion, one of it's many problems was patching together Jewish monotheism with pagan concepts of salvation, afterlife and an intercessor with the divine.

The Jewish religion had no concept of Hell and was sketchy on the afterlife (some passage of the OT flatly deny there even is one). The Jews believed in Sheol or "the grave", a term sometimes mistranslated to mean "Hell" but in fact it means oblivion.

To the Jews, the concept of an intercessor type of character, one needed to bridge the gap between us and the divine, was wholly blasphemous. The Jewish god Yahweh was a jealous and insecure god who demanded nothing less than undivided and direct attention. An intercessor was neither necessary nor tolerated. The first commandment makes it clear that there is to be no other god nor shall any bow down to idols. Isaiah 43:20-12 makes it clear that there are none beside him and that he alone judges and saves.

Early Christians wrestled with this conundrum for a good three centuries. The Trinity was invented as a confusing and convoluted patch, that Jesus is the same god and yet a separate person at the same time. The Trinity says that their god comes in three parts, three separate beings who are yet one and the same god yet separate yet one. So when Jesus was praying "not my will but thy will..." that's when he was fully human and a separate being. But when he was forgiving sins, that's when he was fully divine and one with his father god. Jesus flips back and forth between these two contradictory roles as needed to retroactively make the story make sense.

That's the big picture. More flaws creep in with the details as well. Not only were there different authors to scripture but we don't even know who many of them are. Pseudo-epigraphy and interpolation were serious problems. If you wanted to advance your theological agenda, you could "discover" a letter from Paul that just so happened to agree with you. It's estimated that a good half of the Pauline epistles are not "authentic".
Atheist Forums Hall of Shame:
"The trinity can be equated to having your cake and eating it too."
...      -Lucent, trying to defend the Trinity concept
"(Yahweh's) actions are good because (Yahweh) is the ultimate standard of goodness. That’s not begging the question"
...       -Statler Waldorf, Christian apologist
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