The niqab

[lifesagift]

here is a debate in the UK..

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/ne...455334.stm

very disappointing.

Mona Eltahawy speaks passionately, but misses opportunities.
Sam Harris is brilliant, but Paxman subsumes his thoughtfulness!
And Tariq Ramadan is just horrible.

Her argument is women are made invisible.
His argument is that many women choose to wear it
Sam is just too much into the detail.

Point is... the doctrine says women must wear it. So latter day, women may 'choose', but they choose to be chattel!

Women brought up wearing handcuffs as a tradition, may well demand to wear handcuffs are a passage of 'freedom'... but their 'freedom' is ultimately the control of Islam !

They end up argueing that wearing handcuffs is freedom ffs!!

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no one cares it seems..

[DramaQueen]

I'm okay with the niqab for the most part

[The Valkyrie]

I think anything that hides a person's face should be banned in public places: motorcycle helmets (when not being worn), balaclavas, niqab, etc.

[DramaQueen]

Motorcycle helmets hide your face?

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Oh shit I Googled them

[The Valkyrie]

Mine does

[DramaQueen]

I just forgot how they looked like

[The Valkyrie]

This is the make/model of mine:

[Hunafae!i]

Im not comfortable with the state telling me or anyone else what not to wear. Having said that, the full face veil is a barrier to communication, I think its designed with just that in mind. Its a real chocker of a conundrum. I think I have to come down on a ban however, but only for niqab and burka.

[pocaracas]

Allow me... I think any article of clothing that hides a woman's breasts should be banned!


Seriously, now.
In this control freak of a society, the face should be uncovered at all public times, except when required for personal safety, like for example:
the bike/Rally/F1 helmet,


Soldering mask


Ski mask and goggles and helmet



In certain parts of the world, the niqab and the burka, if not worn, can lead to violence, so it's best to wear them.... there!
Not here!
In the civilized world, people don't beat up women for not covering their faces and hair.... nor rape them... nor kill them.

[Ben Davis]

On general principle, the government has no business telling people what they can/can't wear. If someone has a 'cultural imperative' to paint their face orange and walk around with their balls out, so be it. So no, a ban would be wrong.

Pragmatically, there are situations where this is untenable (e.g. motorcycle helmets in banks, balls out in public etc.) and here's where I think some exceptions should be applied. This causes problems where women refuse to take their veils off. We'd be effectively banning them from (for example) banks thus reducing their freedoms even further; not such a problem for every-day transactions which can be done on the internet but a problem for more complex, face-to-face transactions.

In terms of the 'cultural imperative' to wear a veil, as it roots from misogyny, I oppose it on egalitarian principles. I advocate a 'modernisation' of islam, including more enlightenment values and that's what we're seeing in the UK; fewer and fewer muslim women wear veils and fewer and fewer men 'require their women' to wear them. Efforts need to be focussed on spreading that message, worldwide while avoiding alienating muslims by legislating against their freedom to dress as they wish.