Belief and Knowledge

[Heywood]

[Chad32]

What other processes, besides natural processes, have be proven to be true? Whether or not it's proven that the world came about through natural processes, which I believe it actually has, why should we believe it came about through supernatural processes when no supernatural processes have been observed?

[Heywood]

What other processes, besides natural processes, have we proven to be true? Whether or not it's proven that the world came about through natural processes, which I believe it actually has, why should we believe it came about through supernatural processes when no supernatural processes have been observed?

Can't you say that since we've never observed abiogenesis....it should not be believed?

Belief does not require knowledge.

[Chad32]

Nope. We know the universe came to exist. We know that many things once attributed to supernatural forces have been caused by natural forces. So far I believe it can be logically assumed that the world and universe around it came to be by natural forces, until evidence of something else arises. We know how stars and planets form. Given that the laws of our universe that we use to understand it didn't apply before the universe began, it's unlikely that we'll know exactly why there was a ball of compressed particles that expanded into what we see today. Still, I'm not going to say a god might have done it until we know that gods exist and have the capabilities to create things.

[LostLocke]

Sure. I'll agree belief doesn't require knowledge.
But without knowledge, and I don't mean total knowledge just some knowledge, then the question would be... what is the basis for said belief?

I can choose to believe there's a purple dragon living in my basis. I don't need any knowledge for that. But why do I believe it? What is my belief based on?

[bennyboy]

Currently after 37 votes, more than 50% of atheists believe the unproven and un-falsifiable hypothesis that life in this universe arose via some natural process and not from design.

You keep trying to treat these two options as peers-- as though they're two sides of the same coin, and the jury's still out. But they are not.

Abiogenesis says "Look, here's the universe. Here's the stuff in it. Here are the basic forces that act on that stuff. Let's assume that these forces have caused THIS stuff to be collected and organized into THAT stuff, and figure out how this happened."

ID says "Look, here's the universe. Here's the stuff in it. Here are the basic forces that act on that stuff. Let's ignore everything we can see or have learned, and assume that THIS stuff could only become organized into THAT stuff by an intelligent being we've never seen nor whose existence we have good (or, really, any) evidence for. Then let's use that organization as the evidence we need to demonstrate that being exists."

I do not agree if Surgenator said atheists only believe what is known to be true. That's clearly a false statement. But that you are grasping so strongly onto what was probably an offhand response to an unsupported assertion of God's existence shows real desperation.

[Heywood]

Sure. I'll agree belief doesn't require knowledge.
But without knowledge, and I don't mean total knowledge just some knowledge, then the question would be... what is the basis for said belief?

I can choose to believe there's a purple dragon living in my basis. I don't need any knowledge for that. But why do I believe it? What is my belief based on?

Lots of reasons to believe stuff without actual knowledge. Perhaps you are told something by someone you trust who has or should have actual knowledge. Perhaps you believe something because it conforms with your world view. Abiogenesis conforms to an atheistic world veiw which is why they believe it.

[Jenny A]

[Lao Shizi]

I use logic. Which seems more logical, a natural process, or a magical being? Hmmmmm.

[Surgenator]

How the hell did I get into this thread?

For the record, I strive to believe in claims that have good supporting evidence. If I have stated otherwise, I was mistaken.