If

[FatAndFaithless]

The fact that you guys are still running in circles with this yahoo is impressive.

[Little Rik]

[quote='Surgenator' pid='898247' dateline='1426347376']
Prove me wrong. Oh wait, you can't. All you can do is assert bullshit and arrogantly apply your ignorance.

My senses, consistent experiences, and predictable outcomes. What's yours, feelings?

reality

Look Ricky don't try to hard to think or your nerve cells may collapse.
But don't worry, Surgenator is always here to help you.

Look brother, let me put it in a yoga way.
Of course you will reject this point but if you have something else that make more sense say so but please not the usual garbage.
According to yoga the real reality is the one who turn his thinking into this universe with all inside so anyone or anything which is inside this created universe can not possibly be the real reality.
It would be like us that when we think about suppose a horse that horse pretend to be the real reality.
It just doesn't make any sense.

See the bolded words I can agree with.

But again this universe is a reality because if a brick fall on me i will suffer a lot.
But again this universal reality is not the supreme reality but a relative reality confined within space and time.
Sarkar gave the onion example to understand this philosophical point.
An onion has got many layers.

No that's ogres.

The core of the onion is at the center and layers after layers make up the whole but the core is the real thing while the external layers are less and less sort of powerful.

You of course have some evidence for this.

That is the same thing when compared to our consciousness.
The core is the pure consciousness or God and the external layers are the different strata of the consciousness mind.

This is just pure bollocks isn't it!

So when you pretend to know what the reality is by using your external mind with the help of your physical senses you just fool yourself.

[sarcasm]Yeah we are fooling OURSELVES[/sarcasm]

It is only by getting at the core of the consciousness that you will understand what the reality is.

It is only by applying scientific methods that we will understand what reality is.

You may say that the reality is what is perceived with your senses but your senses and your mind are related to this FINITE universe.
Finite also means that your mind will never be satisfied as we humans always look for more and more in order to give a sense of total satisfaction and peace of mind.

Takes a taste.
Yep that's the pure stuff.
You do make the finest bull.

Anyone who say that they find total satisfaction within this universe is a liar.
If that would be the case people would stop rowing and struggling but they don't and the struggle continue so they are liars.
This clearly means that the reality is not external.

Your words seem unrelated to your conclusion here.

Its like saying " I live in a bungalow. Therefore fish can talk Cantonese"

But don't despair brother.
Rik is always here to help you.

Well that's a relief.

Among all this pack o'garbage that you write i choose one of your question when you say...............It is only by applying scientific methods that we will understand what reality is........
Your scientific methods are related to this physical universe which is constantly moving and changing.
How do you expect to find something that doesn't move and change within this physical reality?
As i just explain to brother surgen the real reality is unchangeable therefore it is obvious that your scientific method can not possibly understand the real reality.

---

The fact that you guys are still running in circles with this yahoo is impressive.

Gee, i never thought that i could rely on your great intellect to find a solution to all my problems.
The heaven sent you here Fat.
Can you please help me to understand this important question.
Do you think that if an hypothetical God exist he should manifest in an atheist life considering that most of the atheists are not interested in knowing an hypothetical God?
Would you really show any interest in anyone who is not interested in you?
Please Fat try to help little rik.

[Surgenator]

---

Reality is more than just physical. The physical can arrange itself to produce mental things. These mental things construct consciousness. You want to assert things backwards without any justification. My justification is very simple, we observe mind only inside brains, and we observe consciousness only in minds. Show me any counter example.

You try to be a little bit intellectual but unfortunately you fail.
Consciousness is like the sun.
The sun is always there as the consciousness is always there but the problem is that between the consciousness and our perception of this consciousness there are the clouds that prevent us from having a 100% perception.
The mind therefore can only perceive part of this sun or consciousness UNLESS we remove the clouds in between.
The job to remove these clouds can also be done in a physical-mental way but in this way the job is very very hard indeed.
It is like a plumber that instead of using a spanner to unscrew a rusted tap use his bare hands.
It is not impossible but by not using the correct tool you will have to go through the physical and mental hell.
That is way since the old old times smart people have always relay on the proper teacher to know how to solve this problem.

---

Pure bullshit. Please give me one example where the consciousness exist outside of a mind or a mind existing outside the brain.

---

Indeed bullshit it is.
All the testicles can do is to be in charge for making sperm and nothing else.
Even a demented idiot knows that.

All the penial gland produces melatonin which affects the modulation of sleep patterns in both seasonal and circadian rhythms and nothing else.
Even a demented idiot should knows that.

Demented idiots rely on the pleasure found in the sexual life only while totally ignore, neglect and disregard the advantages that would come by engaging in the spiritual life so it is obvious that they haven't got a clue about the result that would come from activate the pineal gland.

---

Even those who study physical science can not understand the real role of this gland therefore it is natural that they only understand the physical side of this gland.

And you know because of ??? You pulled out of your guru's ass.

Please explain why i shouldn't exist.

Use your horse example a couple of post back. Thinking about a horse doesn't make it exist. So god thinking about you doesn't make you exist. Hence, a non-existing rock hitting a non-existing human does not harm the non-existing human.

If you take from my previous example you should have take it in full not only part of it.
I said that as we create something in our mind also God create the universe in his mind but the difference is that God being God he make his creation real not abstract as our.
The 5 fundamental factors that make the universe are real.

Then your analogy doesn't apply.

There are a lot more important things that glands producing sperm so it is obvious that the bottom can not produce what is at the top of it.

The top cannot exist without the bottom. Go ahead and build a computer without microprocessors to prove me wrong.

Sorry mate but as proven by thousand of NDEs the consciousness doesn't need a body to be alive and well.
Wrong again brother.

Prove it. Where is my computer without microprocessors?

You don't know what science is. Science requires a falsifiable hypothesis and theories. You don't even dare think about how your ideas can be wrong.

You can try this experiment by yourself.
Pour a glass of cordial in a container of water and see if the cordial get diluted or not in his potency.
The same apply with the pure consciousness and his outer layer like the mind.
Surgen for Christ sake why don't you think twice before to write something.
You only hurt yourself in this way. hock:

LOL. Let me go find my container of pure consciousness that I put next to the tooth fairy and try this experiment. :dodge: You still didn't answer the question, how is your view falsifiable?

I do think you're deluded, and analogies are not proof that you're not deluded.

Let us put my analogies to the public and see what they think about.

If the public is the ultimate authority, I expect you to be christian. Christianity is the biggest religion. But you want your brand of bullshit to be immune to popular opinion.

Here you fail again surgen.
The universe being made of space, air, light, water and matter obviously can not care about what is more conscious like a human being.
It would be like if an external layer of an onion has got more consciousness than an internal layer which is less diluted.

Toss your antiquated alchemy bullshit away and take a chemistry class. Plus, your avoiding the question.

Try with the cordial mate.
Even a demented idiot can see the difference.

No wonder you don't like physical world, you don't even understand the simple stuff like different types of atoms. You cannot fathom the natural complexities and self-ordering that occurs from physical things. So you cling to bullshit notions of spirits in your antiquated understanding of the world.

What makes you think the universe cares two shits about you?

I already answer your question surgen.
Just look back in the previous post and you will see my answer.

No you didn't. What you said is a dodge. Now answer the question, what make you think the universe cares two shits about you?

One more failing mate.
You never really study psychology nor you have been near people on death bed.
If you would you would know that no one has never been fully satisfied.
The materialist that got 1 always wish to have 2.
The intellectual that study this or that philosopher regret that he-she didn't yet study all the rest.
The religious person doesn't know whether he-she will go to paradise or hell.
The atheist will regret that at the end of his-her life nothing really is achieved so bugger all.
Now you tell me where full satisfaction is then materially or mentally speaking?

Psychology is a hobby of mine. And I also talked to my grandma and grandpa on their death beds. My grandpa had regrets. My grandma longed for death because grandpa wasn't around anymore. Plus, you're avoiding the question again, surprise surprise. Did you go around and asked everyone on their deathbed if they had regrets?

Wrong again surgen.
I have been working as a nurse for the last 25 years.
During this time i have been dealing with hundredS of sick people before they die so i think i have enough knowledge about the issue.

I have a hard time believing you are actually a nurse. Your understanding of the human body is dismal.

Garbage.
The reality can not be in a place where everything is moving and changing.

This assertion is pure garbage. Let me guess, you pulled it either out of your ass or your guru's ass. Which is it?

Sorry sur but you are wrong again (again and again).
The reality doesn't change therefore can not be found in this physical universe where everything move and change.
What is real one minute is not real the next minute.
You get rid of the time and place and then you can find the real reality.

My glasses stopped being my glasses if a minute passes. That is insane. Oh look, a minute passed, and my glasses are still mine. Have you been stealing prescription medications from the supposed hospital you work at?

[FatAndFaithless]

The fact that you guys are still running in circles with this yahoo is impressive.

Gee, i never thought that i could rely on your great intellect to find a solution to all my problems.
The heaven sent you here Fat.
Can you please help me to understand this important question.
Do you think that if an hypothetical God exist he should manifest in an atheist life considering that most of the atheists are not interested in knowing an hypothetical God?
Would you really show any interest in anyone who is not interested in you?
Please Fat try to help little rik.

I truly, and utterly, don't care.

[Angrboda]

Consciousness is like the sun.

Life is like a box of chocolates.

[The Reality Salesman01]

I'm not trying to pick at nits here, but you should really use the article "a" when referring to a noun that doesn't begin with a vowel sound. I'm sorry, but each time I read "An hypothetical..." It's as if someone is scratching their nails on a chalkboard. "A hypothetical God" not "an". If you want to use "an", try this one: "An imaginary God..."; this is not only grammatically correct, but it captures the properties of all gods equally and it will not change the way your proposition is received by this audience, I assure you.

[downbeatplumb]

Among all this pack o'garbage that you write i choose one of your question when you say...............It is only by applying scientific methods that we will understand what reality is........
Your scientific methods are related to this physical universe which is constantly moving and changing.

So your take away thing from the whole of the scientific method is.
"Things change so why bother"

How do you expect to find something that doesn't move and change within this physical reality?

With evidence.

Is this a hard concept for you?

As i just explain to brother surgen the real reality is unchangeable therefore it is obvious that your scientific method can not possibly understand the real reality.

That was just a statement with nothing to back it up.

The fact that you guys are still running in circles with this yahoo is impressive.

Its like prodding an ulcer with your tongue. You know you shouldn't but just can't stop yourself.

[Cyberman]

I'm not trying to pick at nits here, but you should really use the article "a" when referring to a noun that doesn't begin with a vowel sound. I'm sorry, but each time I read "An hypothetical..." It's as if someone is scratching their nails on a chalkboard.

Unfortunately it is grammatically accurate. I use it myself when not writing informally.

[Little Rik]

I'm not trying to pick at nits here, but you should really use the article "a" when referring to a noun that doesn't begin with a vowel sound. I'm sorry, but each time I read "An hypothetical..." It's as if someone is scratching their nails on a chalkboard.

Unfortunately it is grammatically accurate. I use it myself when not writing informally.

Stim, you are heaven sent.
I have been waiting for days and days on end to see you down here in this low caste forum.
Thanks again for coming.
Now i have to beg your pardon but i have a big big problem.
I am sure you can help.
You remember when i was kicked out the philosophy forum?
Well first of all let me say that it was the correct decision as it is and was obvious that my knowledge of philosophy is next to zero.
Now the problem is this.....i have been dreaming day and night that MAYBE one day i may post again in such a forum but first i have to learn many many things about philosophy and here is where i really need your help.
I would like to know WHAT IS THE MEANING OF PHILOSOPHY AND WHO QUALIFY TO BE A REAL PHILOSOPHER.
Without this ABC of philosophy it wouldn't make any sense to try to understand philosophy.
I also rely on all friend that post on the philosophy forum to help.
You all know these simple question so please help little rik.

---

I'm not trying to pick at nits here, but you should really use the article "a" when referring to a noun that doesn't begin with a vowel sound. I'm sorry, but each time I read "An hypothetical..." It's as if someone is scratching their nails on a chalkboard. "A hypothetical God" not "an". If you want to use "an", try this one: "An imaginary God..."; this is not only grammatically correct, but it captures the properties of all gods equally and it will not change the way your proposition is received by this audience, I assure you.

Unfortunately for you even my ex mate Stim point out to you that my writing is accurate.
What i don't find accurate in your post is not to start your writing with mentioning that you refer your analysis to rik so called bad writing.
And here is where i feel like............. someone is scratching their nails on a chalkboard.

---

Consciousness is like the sun.

Life is like a box of chocolates.

Do you know what happen when you don't take someone thoughts in their full contest but only having a cherry picking?
Simple yogini.
You just make a foul of yourself.

---

Gee, i never thought that i could rely on your great intellect to find a solution to all my problems.
The heaven sent you here Fat.
Can you please help me to understand this important question.
Do you think that if an hypothetical God exist he should manifest in an atheist life considering that most of the atheists are not interested in knowing an hypothetical God?
Would you really show any interest in anyone who is not interested in you?
Please Fat try to help little rik.

I truly, and utterly, don't care.

That is absolutely bizarre Fat.
You sound like a cop that doesn't know why he is wearing his uniform.

[Little Rik]

Among all this pack o'garbage that you write i choose one of your question when you say...............It is only by applying scientific methods that we will understand what reality is........
Your scientific methods are related to this physical universe which is constantly moving and changing.

So your take away thing from the whole of the scientific method is.
"Things change so why bother"

There is nothing wrong with things that change.
The wrong thing is to believe that among 100% change you can find something that DOESN"T change.
The river flows and flows.
Have you ever seen a river that all of a sudden stop flowing 100%?

How do you expect to find something that doesn't move and change within this physical reality?

With evidence.

Show me the evidence that there is something that doesn't move and change in this physical reality and i will cover you in pure gold.

As i just explain to brother surgen the real reality is unchangeable therefore it is obvious that your scientific method can not possibly understand the real reality.

That was just a statement with nothing to back it up.

By showing you that anything that move and change can not be the real reality it is obvious that the universe can not be the REAL reality.
From here even a demented idiot would understand that the REAL reality is elsewhere other than in this universe.

The fact that you guys are still running in circles with this yahoo is impressive.

Its like prodding an ulcer with your tongue. You know you shouldn't but just can't stop yourself.

Plumb let me explain how the system in this case works.
Your outer mind being stuck in the corral of dogma think that rik is wrong but your real consciousness tell your outer mind to carry on knowing that the little rik is right so you carry on and on without knowing why.
But your deep consciousness knows for sure.

---

---

You try to be a little bit intellectual but unfortunately you fail.
Consciousness is like the sun.
The sun is always there as the consciousness is always there but the problem is that between the consciousness and our perception of this consciousness there are the clouds that prevent us from having a 100% perception.
The mind therefore can only perceive part of this sun or consciousness UNLESS we remove the clouds in between.
The job to remove these clouds can also be done in a physical-mental way but in this way the job is very very hard indeed.
It is like a plumber that instead of using a spanner to unscrew a rusted tap use his bare hands.
It is not impossible but by not using the correct tool you will have to go through the physical and mental hell.
That is way since the old old times smart people have always relay on the proper teacher to know how to solve this problem.

---

Pure bullshit. Please give me one example where the consciousness exist outside of a mind or a mind existing outside the brain.

Sometime after reading your posts you make me feel like i am a primary school teacher and you are a pupil with hearing problems so i have to repeat the same things time and time again.
I already said that the consciousness can live outside of a mind as proven by thousand of NDEs and i never said that the mind can live outside a brain so please stop asking the same question time and time again.

---

Demented idiots rely on the pleasure found in the sexual life only while totally ignore, neglect and disregard the advantages that would come by engaging in the spiritual life so it is obvious that they haven't got a clue about the result that would come from activate the pineal gland.

---

Even those who study physical science can not understand the real role of this gland therefore it is natural that they only understand the physical side of this gland.

And you know because of ??? You pulled out of your guru's ass.

No, actually i know because i rely on maths and science.
The glands on top of the spinal cord are delivering the thinking and the consciousness so it is obvious that they are a lot more important and sophisticated than glands delivering sperm.

If you take from my previous example you should have take it in full not only part of it.
I said that as we create something in our mind also God create the universe in his mind but the difference is that God being God he make his creation real not abstract as our.
The 5 fundamental factors that make the universe are real.

Then your analogy doesn't apply.

It is obvious that according to an atheist anything that relate to God doesn't apply
Being there done that sur.
So carry on.

Sorry mate but as proven by thousand of NDEs the consciousness doesn't need a body to be alive and well.
Wrong again brother.

Prove it. Where is my computer without microprocessors?

Thousand of NDEs are prove of it.
Even the ex atheist confirm that.

You can try this experiment by yourself.
Pour a glass of cordial in a container of water and see if the cordial get diluted or not in his potency.
The same apply with the pure consciousness and his outer layer like the mind.
Surgen for Christ sake why don't you think twice before to write something.
You only hurt yourself in this way. hock:

Let me go find my container of pure consciousness that I put next to the tooth fairy and try this experiment. :dodge: You still didn't answer the question, how is your view falsifiable?

You do this experiment every single day.
Even now that you are reading this post your mind try to find the correct answer to reply to my writing.
Your mind dig from your subconscious mind which is a lot more powerful than the outer mind itself.
You see surgen.
The more you try to talk bullshit and the more you sink in the quick sands.

Let us put my analogies to the public and see what they think about.

If the public is the ultimate authority, I expect you to be christian. Christianity is the biggest religion. But you want your brand of bullshit to be immune to popular opinion.

These days most of the Christians are no longer fanatical like they used to be so it is very likely that they will express their judgement without so much bias.

Try with the cordial mate.
Even a demented idiot can see the difference.

No wonder you don't like physical world, you don't even understand the simple stuff like different types of atoms. You cannot fathom the natural complexities and self-ordering that occurs from physical things. So you cling to bullshit notions of spirits in your antiquated understanding of the world.

Atoms will soon loose their importance.
In the near future people will care more about the smaller particles that compose the life in this universe like the microvita.
http://microvita.org/

I already answer your question surgen.
Just look back in the previous post and you will see my answer.

No you didn't. What you said is a dodge. Now answer the question, what make you think the universe cares two shits about you?

Again you are acting like a pupil with hearing and in this case with visual problems.
Sorry pal, if you want go back few pages and look at my answer.
I am not going to waste my time repeating the same thing time and time again.

Wrong again surgen.
I have been working as a nurse for the last 25 years.
During this time i have been dealing with hundredS of sick people before they die so i think i have enough knowledge about the issue.

I have a hard time believing you are actually a nurse. Your understanding of the human body is dismal.

Your opinion doesn't really concern me.

Sorry sur but you are wrong again (again and again).
The reality doesn't change therefore can not be found in this physical universe where everything move and change.
What is real one minute is not real the next minute.
You get rid of the time and place and then you can find the real reality.

My glasses stopped being my glasses if a minute passes. That is insane. Oh look, a minute passed, and my glasses are still mine. Have you been stealing prescription medications from the supposed hospital you work at?

If the reality is in this universe than these guys would feel a lot of pain but they don't.
Now brother surgen do one thing.
Drink a relaxing chamomile tea.
Relax on your best cough and let your subconscious try to understand why this is possible.
And then let me know.


http://jamie-monk.blogspot.com.au/2011/0...urite.html