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What Quran really teaches about peace.
#1
What Quran really teaches about peace.
وَإِنْ جَنَحُوا لِلسَّلْمِ فَاجْنَحْ لَهَا وَتَوَكَّلْ عَلَى اللَّهِ ۚ إِنَّهُ هُوَ السَّمِيعُ الْعَلِيمُ {61}[Shakir 8:61] And if they incline to peace, then incline to it and trust in Allah; surely He is the Hearing, the Knowing.

لَا يَنْهَاكُمُ اللَّهُ عَنِ الَّذِينَ لَمْ يُقَاتِلُوكُمْ فِي الدِّينِ وَلَمْ يُخْرِجُوكُمْ مِنْ دِيَارِكُمْ أَنْ تَبَرُّوهُمْ وَتُقْسِطُوا إِلَيْهِمْ ۚ إِنَّ اللَّهَ يُحِبُّ الْمُقْسِطِينَ {8}[Shakir 60:8] Allah does not forbid you respecting those who have not made war against you on account of (your) religion, and have not driven you forth from your homes, that you show them kindness and deal with them justly; surely Allah loves the doers of justice.إِنَّمَا يَنْهَاكُمُ اللَّهُ عَنِ الَّذِينَ قَاتَلُوكُمْ فِي الدِّينِ وَأَخْرَجُوكُمْ مِنْ دِيَارِكُمْ وَظَاهَرُوا عَلَىٰ إِخْرَاجِكُمْ أَنْ تَوَلَّوْهُمْ ۚ وَمَنْ يَتَوَلَّهُمْ فَأُولَٰئِكَ هُمُ الظَّالِمُونَ {9}[Shakir 60:9] Allah only forbids you respecting those who made war upon you on account of (your) religion, and drove you forth from your homes and backed up (others) in your expulsion, that you make friends with them, and whoever makes friends with them, these are the unjust.

مِنْ أَجْلِ ذَٰلِكَ كَتَبْنَا عَلَىٰ بَنِي إِسْرَائِيلَ أَنَّهُ مَنْ قَتَلَ نَفْسًا بِغَيْرِ نَفْسٍ أَوْ فَسَادٍ فِي الْأَرْضِ فَكَأَنَّمَا قَتَلَ النَّاسَ جَمِيعًا وَمَنْ أَحْيَاهَا فَكَأَنَّمَا أَحْيَا النَّاسَ جَمِيعًا ۚ وَلَقَدْ جَاءَتْهُمْ رُسُلُنَا بِالْبَيِّنَاتِ ثُمَّ إِنَّ كَثِيرًا مِنْهُمْ بَعْدَ ذَٰلِكَ فِي الْأَرْضِ لَمُسْرِفُونَ {32}[Shakir 5:32] For this reason did We prescribe to the children of Israel that whoever slays a soul, unless it be for manslaughter or for mischief in the land, it is as though he slew all men; and whoever keeps it alive, it is as though he kept alive all men; and certainly Our messengers came to them with clear arguments, but even after that many of them certainly act extravagantly in the land.


إِلَّا الَّذِينَ يَصِلُونَ إِلَىٰ قَوْمٍ بَيْنَكُمْ وَبَيْنَهُمْ مِيثَاقٌ أَوْ جَاءُوكُمْ حَصِرَتْ صُدُورُهُمْ أَنْ يُقَاتِلُوكُمْ أَوْ يُقَاتِلُوا قَوْمَهُمْ ۚ وَلَوْ شَاءَ اللَّهُ لَسَلَّطَهُمْ عَلَيْكُمْ فَلَقَاتَلُوكُمْ ۚ فَإِنِ اعْتَزَلُوكُمْ فَلَمْ يُقَاتِلُوكُمْ وَأَلْقَوْا إِلَيْكُمُ السَّلَمَ فَمَا جَعَلَ اللَّهُ لَكُمْ عَلَيْهِمْ سَبِيلًا {90}[Shakir 4:90] Except those who reach a people between whom and you there is an alliance, or who come to you, their hearts shrinking from fighting you or fighting their own people; and if Allah had pleased, He would have given them power over you, so that they should have certainly fought you; therefore if they withdraw from you and do not fight you and offer you peace, then Allah has not given you a way against them.

يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا إِذَا ضَرَبْتُمْ فِي سَبِيلِ اللَّهِ فَتَبَيَّنُوا وَلَا تَقُولُوا لِمَنْ أَلْقَىٰ إِلَيْكُمُ السَّلَامَ لَسْتَ مُؤْمِنًا تَبْتَغُونَ عَرَضَ الْحَيَاةِ الدُّنْيَا فَعِنْدَ اللَّهِ مَغَانِمُ كَثِيرَةٌ ۚ كَذَٰلِكَ كُنْتُمْ مِنْ قَبْلُ فَمَنَّ اللَّهُ عَلَيْكُمْ فَتَبَيَّنُوا ۚ إِنَّ اللَّهَ كَانَ بِمَا تَعْمَلُونَ خَبِيرًا {94}[Shakir 4:94] O you who believe! when you go to war in Allah's way, make investigation, and do not say to any one who offers you peace: You are not a believer. Do you seek goods of this world's life! But with Allah there are abundant gains; you too were such before, then Allah conferred a benefit on you; therefore make investigation; surely Allah is aware of what you do.



وَعِبَادُ الرَّحْمَٰنِ الَّذِينَ يَمْشُونَ عَلَى الْأَرْضِ هَوْنًا وَإِذَا خَاطَبَهُمُ الْجَاهِلُونَ قَالُوا سَلَامًا {63}[Shakir 25:63] And the servants of the Beneficent Allah are they who walk on the earth in humbleness, and when the ignorant address them, they say: Peace.
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#2
RE: What Quran really teaches about peace.
*Dozes off due to background white noise*
In every country and every age, the priest had been hostile to Liberty.
- Thomas Jefferson
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#3
RE: What Quran really teaches about peace.
The quraan contradicts itself, whatever you are looking for you can find in that book. If you want to kill there would be a verse to justify it, and if you want to pretend to be an angel there is another verse for that. And the reason is because Mo wrote it and changed it according to what he needed at that given time. When he needed to ally with the non muslims and make peace with certain rivals, he spoke of peace and forgiveness, when he had an army and could invade, suddenly the word of God has to spread and unbelievers have to die, etc...

It's so subjective that he did not respect his own laws, every man gets to marry 4 times, but the rules don't apply to him, he can marry as much as he likes. Widows can marry another man but not his widows, they should remain single after he is dead. etc etc... He was full of shit head to toe.
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#4
RE: What Quran really teaches about peace.
The verses that are seen to contradict can be seen in context of a defensive war and in context of the verses that say for example that permission was given to fight because they were oppressed and being fought, and to fight only those who fight them..and so on and so forth.

I don't know why anyone would suggest Mohammad contradicted himself there when it can easily be interpreted in a way that doesn't contradict.
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#5
RE: What Quran really teaches about peace.
(January 8, 2015 at 12:35 am)MysticKnight Wrote: and to fight only those who fight them..and so on and so forth.
The so on and so forth being the friends of whatever enemies you have - as per your translation.

Talk about an open ended pretext to perpetual war. Bravo! Done fucking up group A? Move on to their friends. Rinse and repeat.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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#6
RE: What Quran really teaches about peace.
(January 8, 2015 at 12:39 am)Rhythm Wrote:
(January 8, 2015 at 12:35 am)MysticKnight Wrote: and to fight only those who fight them..and so on and so forth.
The so on and so forth being -and also the friends of those who fight them - as per your translation.

Talk about an open ended pretext to perpetual war. Bravo! Done fucking up group A? Move on to his friends. Rinse and repeat.

No where does it say allies of those who fight you. Where it does it state that in Quran?
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#7
RE: What Quran really teaches about peace.
I think for me to be consistent here I need to point out heresy/apostasy/blasphemy from the Islamic orbit doesn't fly any better with me than the equivalent from the christers.

And Zeus knows, we get heaps of the christian variety here.
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#8
RE: What Quran really teaches about peace.
(January 7, 2015 at 4:45 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: Allah only forbids you respecting those who made war upon you on account of (your) religion, and drove you forth from your homes and backed up (others) in your expulsion, that you make friends with them, and whoever makes friends with them, these are the unjust.
b-mine

....you tell me?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Reply
#9
RE: What Quran really teaches about peace.
(January 8, 2015 at 12:53 am)Rhythm Wrote:
(January 7, 2015 at 4:45 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: Allah only forbids you respecting those who made war upon you on account of (your) religion, and drove you forth from your homes and backed up (others) in your expulsion, that you make friends with them, and whoever makes friends with them, these are the unjust.
b-mine

....you tell me?

It's saying to befriend oppressors who are treating you unjustly makes a person himself unjust..this has nothing to do with allegiance...or allowing you to kill those who befriend them but don't fight you. Islam allowed allegiance with those very people who did fight them...it made treaties and told them not to fight them as long as they stay true to their treaties.

Also this was specifically to the Muslims, telling the Muslims whoever befriends them after facing all this injustice from them is unjust. How does that translate to fighting all allies and friends of those who fight them?

They have nothing to do with each other.
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#10
RE: What Quran really teaches about peace.
(January 8, 2015 at 12:59 am)MysticKnight Wrote: It's saying to befriend oppressors who are treating you unjustly makes a person himself unjust..this has nothing to do with allegiance...or allowing you to kill those who befriend them but don't fight you. Islam allowed allegiance with those very people who did fight them...it made treaties and told them not to fight them as long as they stay true to their treaties.

Also this was specifically to the Muslims, telling the Muslims whoever befriends them after facing all this injustice from them is unjust. How does that translate to fighting all allies and friends of those who fight them?

They have nothing to do with each other.
It's saying, or you're saying? Regardless, this is as fine a pretext to war as any ever conceived - even with all of your modifications. You don't buy it (and neither do I), but our personal approval isn't required in order for something to be a workable pretext. We've done worse over less. You've approached this excerpt from a position of having already decided what you want it to say, and what you don't want it to say, clearly. I managed to spot an easy way to drum your buddies to war - just as many others have done. Personally, I don't see this as a problem for the Quran or for Islam, why wouldn't it contain the necessary ingredients for pretext? It -is- however, a problem for the claim implicit in your thread.

Describing all of the ways that others are unjust - going so far as to call someone unjust by association with the unjust...isn't exactly a recipe for peace. We (the US) recently invaded two countries on precisely this form of pretext - how do you feel about that?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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