Thoughts on Buddhism

[Angrboda]

Just a minor point, but it's not clear who actually wrote the New Testament, nor that they would be what we now consider Christians. It's not known specifically which traditions the separate writers of the New Testament belonged to, nor that there even was a tradition that was recognizably Christian at the time of the writing. To assume the writers of the New Testament were Christian is an anachronism which is still hotly debated.

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There is no hope for saving the biblical picture via mere interpretations.

It's far more problematic that this.

Take the very basis for the whole tale (i.e. The fall from grace)

Gen 3:14 And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:

As written, there isn't much to "interpret". It either means what it says, or we need to appeal to grossly abstract metaphors to avoid accepting that it actually says what it says in an effort to try to pretend that it says something else, (something preferably far more reasonable if we're trying to support the myths) But to do that would be nothing more than to blatantly attempt to make these fables into something they aren't.

I respectfully disagree. I just Tuesday had a spirited discussion with a handful of Christians about interpreting the Genesis narrative which I found meaningful, sensible and profitable. I think you are letting yourself be hamstrung by an overly strict and stereotyped hermeneutic.

What sense would it be to pretend to change a story so completely via highly unrelated abstract metaphors that the story we end up supporting has no relevance to the original scriptures?

All reading requires interpretation, whether it's the Genesis narrative or a set of stereo instructions. You may be disinclined to follow the post-modernists in concluding that reading is rewriting, but there is no such thing as an uninterpreted text, nor a neutral interpretation.

Above, in Genesis 3:14 we have this God cursing a demon, (supposedly a serpent), for having beguiled Eve into eating the forbidden fruit. What does this God do to solve this problem?

Again, we see the failure of your hermeneutic principles. There are at least two interpretations common here. The Christian interpretation reads the snake as a demon; there is nothing in the actual text to suggest this, and I'd have to check, but I doubt interpreting the snake as demonic is consonant with historical Judaism.

You're mixing your specific interpretation in as a standard by which you measure other interpretations, without any justification as to why your interpretation is privileged above other interpretations.

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And the rest is just more bollocks based on your apparent misunderstanding of principles of hermeneutics and literary analysis, so I am not going to continue my point by point analysis.

[Abracadabra]

You're mixing your specific interpretation in as a standard by which you measure other interpretations, without any justification as to why your interpretation is privileged above other interpretations.

Just look at the big picture.

There was a problem in the Garden of Eden.
A supposedly all-wise, all-benevolent, God steps in deal with the problem.
He delves out cruel and harsh 'punishments'.
Does this solve the problem?
No. The problem remains just as it always was.

In fact, you can go through the entire bible in this way and what do you see?
You see precisely the same scenario over and over again the whole way though.

God encounters a problem (i.e. people are supposedly sinning)
God intervenes with harsh violent crude forms of punishment or death.
Do he ever solve the problem?
No. His violent punishments never solve anything.

This is true all the way up the the crucifixion of Jesus.
Yet another "solution" based on violence and gore.
Did it solve anything?
Nope. Things are still the same as ever.

Moreover, according to these fables, even Jesus himself proclaims that the path is straight and the gate is narrow and only few will make it into the kingdom of God. Which necessarily means that the vast majority of souls that this creator creates are failures.

At the very best it's a fable about an extremely inefficient God who thinks that the only way to deal with problems is through violence and threats of violence, and he still loses the vast majority of souls that he creates.

Even if the tales were true it would be a story about a pathetic God who's violent solutions NEVER WORK.

[Bgood]

Abracadabra wrote

At the very best it's a fable about an extremely inefficient God who thinks that the only way to deal with problems is through violence and threats of violence, and he still loses the vast majority of souls that he creates.

Even if the tales were true it would be a story about a pathetic God who's violent solutions NEVER WORK.

I totally agree with this premise. Genesis says that the Tree of Knowedge was not to be touched in the Garden of Babylon [Eden] which meant that God wanted his naked Adam and Eve to be ignorant of Knowledge forever...to never evolve, to never think,to never transcend His power. But we did. So fuck God, fuck Jesus, and all His Bible beating slaves. The serpent was worshipped in many ancient cultures. The Serpent in the garden is not an evil devil. He is our messenger to enlightenment. Buddha became enshrouded by a large cobra serpent in his mastery of self. Nature is not our enemy. Myth is.

In totality, the Bible is a complete distortion of truth. It was used as propaganda for 2,000 years. In a very broad, keen and encapsulating sense of mind, Christianity is a spiritual fraud. The earth would have prospered more without it. It is an insidious, convicting conspiracy of humanity. It is useful only for social mind control. The Bible is a thorough mind fuck that will leave it's victim in total confusion, guilt and shame.

[Carnavon]

If theres any religions philosophy that deserves respect it is buddhism, Abracadabra is right.

Carnavon, how do you explain all the killings in the Bible decreed by God? Sodam, Egypts first born, the Amalekites... Do you think "the good lord" as described in your book considered everyone equal? Do you think individuals found at the hands of those who were filled with righteous fervor were thankful for Gods mercy? What of the chosen who will supposedly emerge from the prophecy of the Book of Revelations in paradise while non-believers are left to suffer? Is this not a separation?

If you believe the message of the Bible, of your "God" is one of peace then you have obviously not read it thoroughly but rather had people quote cherry picked verses that you have adopted and looked specifically for on occasion. Make no mistake; the message of the Bible is one of fear and control not of morality.
If you want to form an actual perspective on it you should read it all.

Hi RaphielDrake. You pose relevant and thought provoking questions.
It would seem to me that the questions have one common aspect to them - punishment by a "good god" of "innocent" people.
That God is good does not mean that God accepts evil. To the contrary, God executes his wrath - not only in the present but also on "judgement day". The idea that God is a real nice person who would not hurt a fly, may be the picture that some would like to paint - as it falls really nice "on the ear", and hence many preachers only emphasize the grace of God to the exclusion of the judgement of God - as God's righteous judgement aspect will not "attract" people to the Gospel. So they present an incorrect picture.
We are all sinners and worthy of judgement. But then: Rom 5:8 but God commends His love to us in this, that we being yet sinners, Christ died for us. So even in our state of rebellion against God (and we all did or do) God shows his mercy and love by sending his Son to pay the penalty for our sins.
I agree that one might seem to "cherry pick" some verses to the exclusion of others. It would seem to me that there are certain basic principles that will as a matter be more often quoted than others.

You will notice that my initial response was to "[i]Abrahamic religions that renounce anyone who refuses to climb on board as being a 'worthless heathen' unworthy of respect[/i] and although I will be happy to discuss other issues from time to time, maybe we can limit ourselves to that aspect and get some facts supporting that view or disagreeing with that? Your views on the issue?

[Reforged]

If theres any religions philosophy that deserves respect it is buddhism, Abracadabra is right.

Carnavon, how do you explain all the killings in the Bible decreed by God? Sodam, Egypts first born, the Amalekites... Do you think "the good lord" as described in your book considered everyone equal? Do you think individuals found at the hands of those who were filled with righteous fervor were thankful for Gods mercy? What of the chosen who will supposedly emerge from the prophecy of the Book of Revelations in paradise while non-believers are left to suffer? Is this not a separation?

If you believe the message of the Bible, of your "God" is one of peace then you have obviously not read it thoroughly but rather had people quote cherry picked verses that you have adopted and looked specifically for on occasion. Make no mistake; the message of the Bible is one of fear and control not of morality.
If you want to form an actual perspective on it you should read it all.

Hi RaphielDrake. You pose relevant and thought provoking questions.
It would seem to me that the questions have one common aspect to them - punishment by a "good god" of "innocent" people.
That God is good does not mean that God accepts evil. To the contrary, God executes his wrath - not only in the present but also on "judgement day". The idea that God is a real nice person who would not hurt a fly, may be the picture that some would like to paint - as it falls really nice "on the ear", and hence many preachers only emphasize the grace of God to the exclusion of the judgement of God - as God's righteous judgement aspect will not "attract" people to the Gospel. So they present an incorrect picture.
We are all sinners and worthy of judgement. But then: Rom 5:8 but God commends His love to us in this, that we being yet sinners, Christ died for us. So even in our state of rebellion against God (and we all did or do) God shows his mercy and love by sending his Son to pay the penalty for our sins.
I agree that one might seem to "cherry pick" some verses to the exclusion of others. It would seem to me that there are certain basic principles that will as a matter be more often quoted than others.

You will notice that my initial response was to "[i]Abrahamic religions that renounce anyone who refuses to climb on board as being a 'worthless heathen' unworthy of respect[/i] and although I will be happy to discuss other issues from time to time, maybe we can limit ourselves to that aspect and get some facts supporting that view or disagreeing with that? Your views on the issue?

I would like to reply to that first statement before I state my views on the other issue.
I can't help but feel if this God cared about whether who he was killing was evil or not he wouldn't kill "Egypts first born". Little bit near the knuckle don't you think? Its not even the only example of its kind. Do you honestly think thats "righteous wrath"? Take away the divine powers and its just Kim Jong-Il on Red Bull.

As for Abrahamic religions renouncing anyone who doesn't agree entirely, I think those religions just take their holy book literally to the nth term and refuse to cover it up. Its not like it isn't authorized by The Bible if you read it, infact being renounced is getting off lightly if you go by those standards.
Take it literally then Fred Phelps was well within his rights to do what he did. In his distorted view he was saving people from going to hell and there was nothing in there to say otherwise. On the contrary, he found plenty to support him. Of course most of us know he was a deeply vile individual but its not hard to see where he got his ideas from.

[Bgood]

I can't help but feel if this God cared about whether who he was killing was evil or not he wouldn't kill "Egypts first born". Little bit near the knuckle don't you think? Its not even the only example of its kind. Do you honestly think thats "righteous wrath"? Take away the divine powers and its just Kim Jong-Il on Red Bull.

Lol, that's funny! The Bible has been directly used as justification of totalitaian dictatorships all throughout history. Think about it..a Monotheistic God who rules the universe through force and fear. Just like Kim Jong-Il and plenty of others try to do.

Democracy was born in Ancient Greece, and they were a polytheistic culture. All the Abrahamic religions are inherently wrong, corrupt and evil. Easten religions are FAR more superior in intellect, virtue and practice. Case closed Carnavon. Christianity is dead. Become a buddhist if you want to experience true awakening and spirituality lol. But whatever you do, put down the fucking cross and walk upright!

[Abracadabra]

We are all sinners and worthy of judgement. But then: Rom 5:8 but God commends His love to us in this, that we being yet sinners, Christ died for us. So even in our state of rebellion against God (and we all did or do) God shows his mercy and love by sending his Son to pay the penalty for our sins.

That's the Christian lie right there.

The very idea that all men have chosen to willfully reject this God and refuse to obey him is an outright lie.

In fact, it wouldn't even be possible for a non-believer to even do that.

A non-believer cannot possibly be said to have willfully rejected a God that they don't even believe in.

This is why these stories themselves are necessarily lies.

They are extreme brainwashing scams created to try to mentally trick people into thinking that a mere disbelief in a God is the same as willful disobedience.

The mere fact that you fall for that kind of utter nonsense only demonstrates your own gullibility.

In fact, this was one of the myriad of issues that made it crystal clear to me that these Hebrew hate fables are truly nothing but lies.

In order to believe in this religion you must believe that you have personally rejected God and knowingly and willfully refused to obey him.

Of course, if that's true for you personally, then it's understandable how you could fall for this nonsense.

But for those of us who have never rejected any "God" nor willfully chose to knowingly disobey any "God", these fables are obvious lies.

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I was also thinking just tonight before I read your post how utterly despicable it truly is for any human being to actually rejoice or be happy that some God supposedly had his son beaten to a pulp and nailed to a pole to pay for their sins.

That's got to be the sickest think I can imagine.

I personally would never condone such an act on my behalf.

In fact, there is nothing I have ever done in my entire 62 years of life that would warrant such a punishment.

That is just utterly absurd.

If Jesus supposedly paid for my sins, he's due a huge refund!

Because he would have way over-paid.

Christianity is nothing but an extreme hate cult, using absurdly unrealistic notions of guilt to try to get people to join the cult and support their religious bigotry, male-chauvinism, and support them in their political agendas to try to push their immoral social standards onto other people in the name of a hateful God who will be extremely cruel and mean to anyone who doesn't support bigotry in the name of Jesus as "The Christ".

Nothing that I have ever experienced in my entire life represents such deep-seated hatred, and underhanded deceit, as the Christian religion.

Either climb on-board, or God will hate you, and rightfully so because you are the one who has chosen to be an evil disgusting person!

That is the ignorance and hatred of Christianity using Jesus as a pasty to spread hatred toward all who refuse to climb on-board their hate wagon.

It's truly the single most disgusting religion ever invented by mankind.

I can't say enough bad things about it. It's truly despicable beyond belief.

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A God who hates you for merely not believing in him, and it's all your fault.

What a croak of lies!

Christianity = EXTREME HATRED.

Pure and simple.

There is no love in the religion at all. It's pure hateful bigotry.

In fact, the only way to be accepted by the asinine followers of this religion is to join the cult and support the hatred and religious bigotry in Jesus' name.

It the epitome of hatred. It's unbridled emotional terrorism that attempts to accuse decent people of "willfully rejecting God".

On some days, this religion fills me with so much anger, that if I could push a button that would automatically kill every person who believes in this hateful religion and supports it, I could push that button and have no more remorse about it than had I swatted a mosquito.

That's how disgusting the religion is in my view.

It's nothing more than relentless non-stop hatred being spread in the name of Jesus as "The Christ".

It has absolutely nothing to do with any supreme being or all benevolent creator.

It's just a man-made hate-cult.

That's all it is, and here you are spreading it, and supporting it, because you yourself have become its victim.

You fell for the lies yourself, hook, line, and sinker.

[Bgood]

I agree with Abracadabra. Christianity was used politcally first and foremost. Buddhism doesn't have such a violent and aggressive history. Isn't that enough to make a conscientious decision? All the Abrahamic religions born out of the harsh desert environment of the Middle East are the same. They are patriarchal and separatist. Buddha was a human being. He was a pioneer in introspective analysis. He found the mustard seed...which is within the self....the pineal gland...activated through mushrooms and other natural substances ..that AWAKEN us from this mundane plane of existance. Read some Alan Watts, a 1960's Zen buddhist who lived in San Francisco. HE will blow your mind. He is on Youtube also. Great stuff!

[Abracadabra]

Read some Alan Watts, a 1960's Zen buddhist who lived in San Francisco. HE will blow your mind. He is on Youtube also. Great stuff!

I think I read every book Alan Watts ever wrote. Back in the 70's I was a huge Alan Watts fan. Well, at least a fan of his book. I loved his writing style. I could read his books from beginning to end and could hardly wait to run out and buy another one. Great stuff.

I think I had a library of about 25 of his paperbacks. I couldn't get enough of it. However, ironically in one of the last books I read, he warned against just sitting around meditating or reading spiritual books forever lest cobwebs grow on you. He even suggested this for Christians who read the Bible. He basically said, "Read the damn book, and then burn it and live your life" Don't become a slave to the book.

I stupidly took his advice and gave away all 25 of his books. After all, I had already read them all, so why keep them around cluttering up my life?

Well, in truth, I wouldn't mind having those 25 books on my shelf right now. It's been over 40 decades since I last read them. I'd kind of enjoy re-reading them again today. They were fun to read. He was a very interesting and entertaining author.

Great author. Great books.

[Epimethean]

Lol, that's funny! The Bible has been directly used as justification of totalitaian dictatorships all throughout history. Think about it..a Monotheistic God who rules the universe through force and fear. Just like Kim Jong-Il and plenty of others try to do.

Democracy was born in Ancient Greece, and they were a polytheistic culture. All the Abrahamic religions are inherently wrong, corrupt and evil. Easten religions are FAR more superior in intellect, virtue and practice. Case closed Carnavon. Christianity is dead. Become a buddhist if you want to experience true awakening and spirituality lol. But whatever you do, put down the fucking cross and walk upright!

Direct democracy lasted all of a few generations in Classical Athens. Man is not predisposed to want to take a real hand in his own governance: It takes effort. God, on the other hand, especially through his middlemen, the priesthood, takes all the unpleasant weight of thinking and reasoning away from the sheeple.