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Are you an Islamophobe?
#1
Are you an Islamophobe?
According to RationalWiki's entry on Islamophobia you are an Islamophobe if you agree with some (or any) of the following:

Quote:The Runnymede Trust defines Islamophobia as having the following characteristics:
Islam is seen as a monolithic bloc, static and unresponsive to change.
Islam is seen as separate and "other." It does not have values in common with other cultures, is not affected by them and does not influence them.
Islam is seen as inferior to the West. It is seen as barbaric, irrational, primitive, and sexist.
Islam is seen as violent, aggressive, threatening, supportive of terrorism, and engaged in a Clash of Civilizations.
Islam is seen as a political ideology, used for political or military advantage.
Criticisms made of 'the West' by Islam are rejected out of hand.
Hostility towards Islam is used to justify discriminatory practices towards Muslims and exclusion of Muslims from mainstream society.
Anti-Muslim hostility is seen as natural and normal.

I don't agree with Criticisms made of 'the West' by Islam are rejected out of hand and Hostility towards Islam is used to justify discriminatory practices towards Muslims and exclusion of Muslims from mainstream society. I partially agree with the last point (Anti-Muslim hostility is seen as natural and normal) but I would replace anti-Muslim with anti-Islam. I agree with everything else. I guess I'm an Islamophobe. I can't help myself.

What about you? Are you an Islamophobe?

Is the article politically correct? I think a lot of it misses the point that criticism of Islam is due to religion. For example:
Quote:Islamophobia is the irrational fear or hatred of Islam or Muslims. It is usually, though not always, connected with xenophobia in general. The term is also sometimes used as a snarl word to dismiss valid criticisms of Islamic doctrines and ideology.
Given that it generally involves embracing a bigoted viewpoint of a particular people, Islamophobia is akin and almost universally adjacent to racism.
Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you

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#2
RE: Are you an Islamophobe?
Are you an Islamophobe?

Coming for a guy who used to be a muslim for 20 fucking years : THE HELL I AM. and I wish people cut the politically-correct-bullshit and be Islamophobic and stop that stupid religion from doing more damage.
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#3
RE: Are you an Islamophobe?
No, on all accounts of the above.
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#4
RE: Are you an Islamophobe?
I am not but I think that this is worded badly

Quote:Islam is seen as a political ideology, used for political or military advantage.
Of course, religion can also be used for political or military advantage
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#5
RE: Are you an Islamophobe?
I find several sects of Islam Abhorrent, the General religion detestable. I find Muslims are generally just normal people and take them prima facie unless they give me reason not to (like everyone else).
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#6
RE: Are you an Islamophobe?
(March 12, 2015 at 11:03 am)Pandæmonium Wrote: I find several sects of Islam Abhorrent, the General religion detestable. I find Muslims are generally just normal people and take them prima facie unless they give me reason not to (like everyone else).
Yes. The only Muslim I've met I really liked as an individual. It's just their religion I don't like much. Sometimes that is wrongly confused with hatred for people when it's just hatred for the idea.
Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you

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#7
RE: Are you an Islamophobe?
I work with a Muslim kid, he's placement student learning hia trade in the construction management racket.

He prays 5 times a day and is pretty devout. I find it alien and off putting. He's also a really nice kid and loves banter (a must in construction). So whilst I find his religion weird, I really Like him as a person. That scenario plays out for everyone with everyone else. People hold all sort of wacky beliefs. Islam is just an idea after all. Why should anyone be told to like it? As you say, it becomes an issue when people start to mistake the idea for the person, unless of course a person is defined purely by their idea (or their self-identify) then they're fair game as far as I'm concerned.
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#8
RE: Are you an Islamophobe?
(March 12, 2015 at 10:46 am)Dystopia Wrote:

I have to disagree with the article entirely because it tries to apply personalised prejudice to an ideology. That's not to say that islamophobia doesn't exist, it does however this piece does a poor job of thinking through its definitions. I'm surprised because the team at Runnymede aren't usually so sloppy. It's very simple: Islamophobia is prejudice against muslims, generally, not islam. If I happen to think that an individual muslim is sexist, that's not Islamophobia and if I happen to think that the ideology is inherently sexist (although adherents aren't necessarily so), that's not islamophobia. Neither is islamophobia a specifically western phenomenon. Also, Islam is clearly a politicised & politicisable ideology, although not necessarily so. My definition is very different to 'criticism of the Islamic ideologies' which is simply know as 'free thought'. I would change their indicators as follows:

Quote:Muslims are seen as a monolithic group, static and unresponsive to change.
Muslims are seen as separate and "other". They do not have values in common with other cultures, are not affected by them and do not influence them.
Muslims are seen as inferior to the other cultures/creeds. They are seen as barbaric, irrational, primitive, and sexist.
Muslims are seen as violent, aggressive, threatening, supportive of terrorism, and engaged in a Clash of Civilizations.
Islam is seen as a political ideology, used for political or military advantage.
Criticisms made of 'the West' by muslims are rejected out of hand.
Hostility towards muslims is used to justify discriminatory practices towards Muslims and exclusion of Muslims from mainstream society.
Anti-Muslim hostility is seen as natural and normal

With those adjustments, there would be a reduced risk of accidentally earmarking someone as an Islamophobe when they're making a justified criticism of Islam.
Sum ergo sum
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#9
RE: Are you an Islamophobe?
I would disagree with the following:
Quote:The Runnymede Trust defines Islamophobia as having the following characteristics:
Islam is seen as a monolithic bloc, static and unresponsive to change.
Islam is seen as separate and "other." It does not have values in common with other cultures, is not affected by them and does not influence them.
Anti-Muslim hostility is seen as natural and normal.
However, with qualification, I agree that:
Quote:Islam is seen as inferior to the West. It is seen as barbaric, irrational, primitive, and sexist.
On this I'm torn. On the one hand, the West has been more destructive and has probably facilitated far more suffering than those who make up the radical wing of Islam (a number that I think is very large when one includes the non-violent conservatives and jihadists). Yet, the secular values that the West pays lip-service to are far more rational and modern than anything you'll find in sacred Islamic texts, and I have little doubt that were the scales tipped so that Islam was represented by a power as dominating as those nations in the West, the two wouldn't even be comparable. There would be no equal rights for gays, women, apostates, and many other groups, were a country like the United States under Sharia Law.
Quote:Islam is seen as violent, aggressive, threatening, supportive of terrorism, and engaged in a Clash of Civilizations.
Yes but not any more so than other irrational ideologies. But the key phrase---whether it's one's patriotism or religion---is irrational ideology.
Quote:Islam is seen as a political ideology, used for political or military advantage.
How can it not be? The Quran and the history of Islam is fairly explicit in Muhammad's aspirations to conquer, which he fulfilled in Medina and Mecca.
Quote:Criticisms made of 'the West' by Islam are rejected out of hand.
It depends. They have a lot to justly criticize, but allowing newspapers to publish cartoons without retaliation or retribution is not one of them.
EDIT:
I also agree with this:
Quote:Hostility towards Islam is used to justify discriminatory practices towards Muslims and exclusion of Muslims from mainstream society.
He who loves God cannot endeavour that God should love him in return - Baruch Spinoza
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#10
RE: Are you an Islamophobe?
@Nestor

Quote:Islam is seen as a monolithic bloc, static and unresponsive to change.
I know this isn't true, but the general picture supports this idea. There's Muslims with different views but what I see the most is conservative Muslims wanting to preserve what the Quran commands. Religions are usually extremely conservative, and that ends up resulting in unresponsive stagnation. I wouldn't say they're monolithic though. It's not that there aren't liberal Muslims, but how many Muslims are liberal and secularists? It's hard to not agree with this when all we see about Islam is either (1) Terrorism (2) Muslim human rights group billing laws to ban any criticism of Islam (3) Muslims protesting against free speech and other western rights (4)Surveys revealing extremely conservative and hostile political/ideological opinions coming from Muslims (much more than Christians); for example a study I once linked here in AF said 45% of Muslim immigrants don't trust Jews

Quote:Islam is seen as separate and "other." It does not have values in common with other cultures, is not affected by them and does not influence them.
It's not that it doesn't have values in common, but it has a lot differing from the west and political ideologies like liberalism or democracy.
Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you

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