Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: March 28, 2024, 9:56 pm

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Ask a Automotive Brake Engineer
#21
RE: Ask a Automotive Brake Engineer
(June 9, 2015 at 12:27 pm)Alex K Wrote: Ok, tell us a fact about brake technology that you find fascinating, and that we probably don't know!

I think one of the things that surprised me the most was that brake design is not one of superlatives per se. We can produce brakes that have phenomenal stopping distances. We could educate to greatly reduce pad wear and dust creation. We could produce brakes that are cooler, lighter weight, easier to maintain, all kinds of different measures, but the industry decides designs in a very strange committee method with lots of touchy, feelly evaluations.

I still scratch my head over some companies' decisions.
Find the cure for Fundementia!
Reply
#22
RE: Ask a Automotive Brake Engineer
(June 9, 2015 at 2:48 pm)JesusHChrist Wrote: On say, a 2015 Mustang, is it worth it to get the Brembo brake package or is it mostly marketing hot air?

Reviewers seems to think they are the bees knees, but that could be selection bias.

We make the brakes for the 2015 and newer Mustangs. Brimbo can't meet the tougher manufacturing requirements so that should tell you something. Ford doesn't put Brimbo on their vehicles, not even their Shelbies as far I I know since we produce them all. They must be after market sales by people that have more money than brains. There are standard brake tests performed on part dyno's and car dynos and we easily beat brembo on all tests because we make our own friction material and can tune them to the requested specs. Akebono is a big player in Formula one and our formula one calipers cost $5000 to $14000 a piece. Brembo also produces for Formula 1 but is a spotty competitor, getting a few teams here and there. I just looked at their site and read their claims of F1 successes, but that seems overly hyped, I've not heard that at all. Akebono has been supplying and jointly developing brake systems with the McLaren Formula 1 team since 2007. so we are long term players.

Anyway, perfomance friction, the company that Brembo uses, is pretty good, but owned by a pschopathic bully of a CEO. Lots of turn around and lots of unhappy employees from the stories I've heard.

To aswer you question in a nutshell though, if Ford decided that Akebono brakes were best for their sports cars, why would laymen disagree?  If you want greater mu pads for you car, buy European market pads or Police pads. Spending craploads of money for a baseless fad is silly to me.
Find the cure for Fundementia!
Reply
#23
RE: Ask a Automotive Brake Engineer
(June 9, 2015 at 4:21 pm)Kitty Galore Wrote: What do you think of Raybestos and Powerstop? Lol

Raybestos and powerstop are the mentally impared  orphans from the trailer park area of the industry.

Raybestos was known for poor performance and avoiding modernization.

Powerstop is a newer but totally uneducated company. I read a couple of their white paper's and laughed.
They must do very little testing and have no experience in brake design. Very sad really. They probably copycat designs that work but they don't really know why..

We don't pay too much attention to the aftermarket only crowd. It says something if you can't convince even one manufacturer to chose your designs.
Find the cure for Fundementia!
Reply
#24
RE: Ask a Automotive Brake Engineer
What, if anything specific, replaced asbestos in friction materials?
I change my own pads and am ambivalent about the dust.
Mesotheliomas are rare.
I really don't want one.
So how, exactly, does God know that She's NOT a brain in a vat? Huh
Reply
#25
RE: Ask a Automotive Brake Engineer
(June 9, 2015 at 10:02 pm)JuliaL Wrote: What, if anything specific, replaced asbestos in friction materials?
I change my own pads and am ambivalent about the dust.
Mesotheliomas are rare.
I really don't want one.

Asbestos use in brake pads is considered stone age. No company I know of uses it or has used it in the past 15 years or so. Even then it was just a carry over from the pre-thermal engineer days.
Asbestos is a good insulator. Unfortunately for the asbestos companies, we don't want thermal insulation, we want thermal conductivity (copper!). If the pads get too hot at the contact surface, they create a super hot plasma/fluid surface in which the friction value, mu, plummets. No one wants to have their brakes suddenly stop gripping at all because the surface of their pads got too hot. You want the rotor to take most of the heat away and the pads to take the rest of the heat away, but never do you want the pads to insulate the surface friction.

Unless you are going to be working on a 1930's truck restoration, you've nothing to worry about with modern brakes. Asbestos is long gone from the OEM market. Fly by night after-market pads? Well even them, probably nothing in the last ten years or so has asbestos.

Added:
Mineral wool is the current main replacement of thermal insulating material, it is used in moderation and does not have the health problems of asbestos.
Find the cure for Fundementia!
Reply
#26
RE: Ask a Automotive Brake Engineer
15 years eh?


Thanks, I feel better now.
But only somewhat.
I've been changing pads for the last 35 years.
How long does it take to develop mesothelioma?

What do I do about brake squeal?
So how, exactly, does God know that She's NOT a brain in a vat? Huh
Reply
#27
RE: Ask a Automotive Brake Engineer
(June 9, 2015 at 10:55 pm)JuliaL Wrote: 15 years eh?


Thanks, I feel better now.
But only now.
I've been changing pads for the last 35 years.
How long does it take to develop mesothelioma?

What do I do about brake squeal?

Well, pad shape and natual frequency is supposed to handle that. But if you're stuck with squealing pads.. well tape lasts a little longer than grease on the abutment clip (NEVER get it on the friction surface!)

The tape goes between the abutment clip and the support. (Bracket) Put a small dab of grease on the pad backplate ends.

In this picture it is the very top surface.
[Image: Minimum-Thickness-Brake-Pad.jpg]

I found this pic on a quick google search. The grease apply to the back of the pad is usually a waste of grease but on rare occasion it helps. When this back of the pad apply helps, the tolerances of the caliper machining are too loose.
Find the cure for Fundementia!
Reply
#28
RE: Ask a Automotive Brake Engineer
(June 9, 2015 at 11:02 pm)Brakeman Wrote:
(June 9, 2015 at 10:55 pm)JuliaL Wrote: What do I do about brake squeal?

Well, pad shape and natual frequency is supposed to handle that. But if you're stuck with squealing pads.. well tape lasts a little longer than grease on the abutment clip (NEVER get it on the friction surface!)

The tape goes between the abutment clip and the support. (Bracket) Put a small dab of grease on the pad backplate ends.

In this picture it is the very top surface.



I found this pic on a quick google search. The grease apply to the back of the pad is usually a waste of grease but on rare occasion it helps. When this back of the pad apply helps, the tolerances of the caliper machining are too loose.

I've been doing it wrong.
I've used grease on the back of the pad between it and the caliper or it and the piston.
And usually the grease I get on the friction surface comes from the torn CV joint boot.
Thanks again.
So how, exactly, does God know that She's NOT a brain in a vat? Huh
Reply
#29
RE: Ask a Automotive Brake Engineer
The brake light in my car came on, I had my breaks checked and changed, and the brake light remains on. The break shop told me it was probably an electrical issue. A regular mechanic said my car is so old (it's a 2000, with about 250k miles on it), fixing the electrical system would be silly, probably cost more than the car is worth.

Now that I can't trust my emergency lights, how can I tell when I need new breaks? Just when they start to feel mushy? That seems dangerous.
“Eternity is a terrible thought. I mean, where's it going to end?” 
― Tom StoppardRosencrantz and Guildenstern Are Dead
Reply
#30
RE: Ask a Automotive Brake Engineer
(June 9, 2015 at 11:30 pm)Aroura Wrote: The brake light in my car came on, I had my breaks checked and changed, and the brake light remains on.  The break shop told me it was probably an electrical issue.  A regular mechanic said my car is so old (it's a 2000, with about 250k miles on it), fixing the electrical system would be silly, probably cost more than the car is worth.

Now that I can't trust my emergency lights, how can I tell when I need new breaks?  Just when they start to feel mushy? That seems dangerous.

No, they will squeal when the metal "pad wear indicator" starts to rub the rotor. That is unless you have a newer car with the electronic pad wear indicators. The "alert" light on the panel refers to brake fluid levels found under your hood. Unless your brake system is leaking it shouldn't alert. Check the fluid level. If it is low and you havent worn your pads completely out, then you probably have a leak and you should find it! If it is just the level sensor, that is easily replaced, any shade tree mechanic should be able to do it for about $25 bucks. If your car is worth less than $50 then maybe I agree with the guy .. I dunno about your car Big Grin
Find the cure for Fundementia!
Reply





Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)