Interview with a Jovo

[Drich]

For the record, Drich is wrong about American discrimination laws.  Those laws don't come into play if someone cannot meet the requirements of the job itself.  If the job description clearly states "Must work weekends," the company is not compelled to hire a person that can't work weekends due to their religious beliefs.  To suggest otherwise is idiotic (which is par for the course with Drich).  Otherwise, man, it'd be great if I could apply for a manual labor job, and get the job, but force the company to hire someone else to do the job because, aww shucks, I'm in a wheelchair.

And before you attempt to argue the legal aspects, know that my oldest brother is a lawyer.  So you can, you know, go fuck yourself.

Religious Discrimination & Reasonable Accommodation
The law requires an employer or other covered entity to reasonably accommodate an employee's religious beliefs or practices, unless doing so would cause more than a minimal burden on the operations of the employer's business. This means an employer may be required to make reasonable adjustments to the work environment that will allow an employee to practice his or her religion.
Examples of some common religious accommodations include flexible scheduling, voluntary shift substitutions or swaps, job reassignments, and modifications to workplace policies or practices.
http://www.eeoc.gov/laws/types/religion.cfm

[Drich]

To show the OP what a backwards socialist like state he lives in.

Perhaps I misread your other posts but I thought you weren't wild about the USA, Drich? 

If Christians get special rights then so do  the  followers of all religions.Someone asked how you would feel about a Muslim who refuses to cut ham in a deli? Would you be okay with a teacher wearing a Palad Khik around her neck while she is teaching students?

The Palad Khik, as a phallic representation of Shiva, is also an animistic symbol of fertility. It is not uncommon in Thailand to see a penis amulet hanging on a convenience store a restaurant, or even being sold by old women on the street. Although outsiders may regard these as offensive, ordinary Thais are deeply superstitious and lucky charms and talismans are still regarded as important. [3]

[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palad_khik#cite_note-3][/url]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palad_khik

From our last exchange it should be obvious that just about everything you know about me has been 'misread.'

It is possible to like or even love a country, and not like a group of people in that country.

[Longhorn]

Your continous misrepresentation of this situation is absolutely infuriating. You really are that dense.

Read the bolded part of your own post very carefully, Dripsy.

The law requires an employer or other covered entity to reasonably accommodate an employee's religious beliefs or practices, unless doing so would cause more than a minimal burden on the operations of the employer's business .

And now, read this part of the OP, paying extra special attention to the bolded sentence:

We got down to the details of the role, which included every month working a Saturday or a Sunday with a day off in the week or time in lieu. She flat out refused to work the Sunday citing her religious observance as the reason why: "I have to observe my religion which I'm very passionate about, so I cannot work Sunday's under any circumstances."

This put the cleaning manager under quite some strain as we need cleaners to fill these posts (there is actually a shortage of good cleaners in our local job market apparently), but this was causing bother as we have several other cleaners who'd love to be exempt From working Sunday's but who have also been told they must work.

Case. Dismissed.

[Drich]

To show the OP what a backwards socialist like state he lives in.

Actually that is the case and my argument lest you forget. The OP is indeed able to not hire a Christian based on the prejudice he may have against the legitmate practices of that religion and that in His backwards monkey society is ok.

You don't seem to understand the argument monkey man... In a good and decent Human society their are laws that tell companies who want to strip an indivisual of any right he or she may have to be different than every other drone that they are not allowed to discriminate against people due to their race, Religion, or gender. In this case discrimination would include an unrealistic demand for a worker to work on a holy day when in fact it is not the companies expectation that any of it's workers be made to work 12 hours a day 7 days a week. (as their is a max of 48 hours work week in the UK)http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_labour_law
to say 8 of those hours must be spent on a Sunday out of a 168 hour week is intentionaly targeting Christians.

That's how we do it in 'Merica. (and that is how it is supposed to be done in the UK as well https://www.gov.uk/discrimination-your-r...on-at-work ) But in a monkey society where the mob rules/Pop culture is king. Christianity has fallen out of fashion. In fact in that part of the world it has become fashionable to hate anything Christian. Therefore it IS Indeed OK For the OP and His country to discriminate against religious people. Particually Christians.

Again in the US and in the UK according to the Laws of Man it is discrimination.. but in your monkey/pop culture society, the OP is a 'hero' for not hiring the Christian.

3. Discrimination at work

The law protects you against discrimination at work, including:
dismissal
employment terms and conditions
pay and benefits
promotion and transfer opportunities
training
recruitment
redundancy

Some forms of discrimination are only allowed if they’re needed for the way the organisation works, eg:
a Roman Catholic school restricting applications for admission of pupils to Catholics only
employing only women in a health centre for Muslim women

ooops I guess you didn't bother looking up the laws in the OP's country either..

How many times do you need to hear it?

They need her to work on Sundays. It's necessary for the business. All the other religious people hired there have no trouble at all with not having their sacred day off. Hiring her would be discriminatory towards them.

Stop conflating the debate on whether employers should have the right to discriminate with this particular case, in which there is no discrimination. To the contrary, it's avoided by applying the same standard to all religious employees-no sacred day off, period.

And what the fuck does pop culture have to do with it out of all things?

Nobody is calling the OP a hero. Most people here simply agree the decision was reasonable and just towards all employees.

Again read the law sport. (The US or UK version it does not matter)

You can't make people work on their perspective holy days. That is religious discrimination by defination. You seem to be confusing the law and the exception that says unless a job is only for that holy day (in this case Sunday only,) you must make allowances for an employees deeply held religious views. If the job is not a weekend job only, and because in the UK they are not allow to force people to work more than a 45 hour work week, that means days off. Days off, inturn means scheduling. That's where the law steps in and says because you must give days off, make the day off coninside with a given person's religious beliefs. You can't make them work through their holy day, and then give them some other day off.

[Drich]

Your continous misrepresentation of this situation is absolutely infuriating. You really are that dense.

Read the bolded part of your own post very carefully, Dripsy.

The law requires an employer or other covered entity to reasonably accommodate an employee's religious beliefs or practices, unless doing so would cause more than a minimal burden on the operations of the employer's business .

And now, read this part of the OP, paying extra special attention to the bolded sentence:

We got down to the details of the role, which included every month working a Saturday or a Sunday with a day off in the week or time in lieu. She flat out refused to work the Sunday citing her religious observance as the reason why: "I have to observe my religion which I'm very passionate about, so I cannot work Sunday's under any circumstances."

This put the cleaning manager under quite some strain as we need cleaners to fill these posts (there is actually a shortage of good cleaners in our local job market apparently), but this was causing bother as we have several other cleaners who'd love to be exempt From working Sunday's but who have also been told they must work.

Case. Dismissed.

Keep reading monkey man.. The paragraph includes examples. Those examples specifically dictate that scheduling days off to conside with religious beliefs is indeed to be considered to be a " a minimal burden on the operations of the employer's business."

In this case the government sets the standard on what is and is not to be a minimal burden, not the OP or you! This law specifically allows (in this case) the right for a cleaning lady to have a sunday off to goto Church. Why? Because again to do so according to the goverment does indeed fall into the term "minimal burden" to make such an allowance.

[downbeatplumb]

How many times do you need to hear it?

They need her to work on Sundays. It's necessary for the business. All the other religious people hired there have no trouble at all with not having their sacred day off. Hiring her would be discriminatory towards them.

Stop conflating the debate on whether employers should have the right to discriminate with this particular case, in which there is no discrimination. To the contrary, it's avoided by applying the same standard to all religious employees-no sacred day off, period.

And what the fuck does pop culture have to do with it out of all things?

Nobody is calling the OP a hero. Most people here simply agree the decision was reasonable and just towards all employees.

Again read the law sport. (The US or UK version it does not matter)

You can't make people work on their perspective holy days. That is religious discrimination by defination. You seem to be confusing the law and the exception that says unless a job is only for that holy day (in this case Sunday only,) you must make allowances for an employees deeply held religious views. If the job is not a weekend job only, and because in the UK they are not allow to force people to work more than a 45 hour work week, that means days off. Days off, inturn means scheduling. That's where the law steps in and says because you must give days off, make the day off coninside with a given person's religious beliefs. You can't make them work through their holy day, and then give them some other day off.

[KevinM1]

For the record, Drich is wrong about American discrimination laws.  Those laws don't come into play if someone cannot meet the requirements of the job itself.  If the job description clearly states "Must work weekends," the company is not compelled to hire a person that can't work weekends due to their religious beliefs.  To suggest otherwise is idiotic (which is par for the course with Drich).  Otherwise, man, it'd be great if I could apply for a manual labor job, and get the job, but force the company to hire someone else to do the job because, aww shucks, I'm in a wheelchair.

And before you attempt to argue the legal aspects, know that my oldest brother is a lawyer.  So you can, you know, go fuck yourself.

Religious Discrimination & Reasonable Accommodation
The law requires an employer or other covered entity to reasonably accommodate an employee's religious beliefs or practices, unless doing so would cause more than a minimal burden on the operations of the employer's business. This means an employer may be required to make reasonable adjustments to the work environment that will allow an employee to practice his or her religion.
Examples of some common religious accommodations include flexible scheduling, voluntary shift substitutions or swaps, job reassignments, and modifications to workplace policies or practices.
http://www.eeoc.gov/laws/types/religion.cfm

If someone isn't hired, there isn't an employer.  The cleaner in question was not hired specifically because her beliefs made her a bad fit for the job in question, just like my disability makes me a bad fit for a manual labor position.

Are you really this dumb, or are you just playing?

[Longhorn]

Keep reading monkey man.. The paragraph includes examples. Those examples specifically dictate that scheduling days off to conside with religious beliefs is indeed to be considered to be a " a minimal burden on the operations of the employer's business."

In this case the government sets the standard on what is and is not to be a minimal burden, not the OP or you! This law specifically allows (in this case) the right for a cleaning lady to have a sunday off to goto Church. Why? Because again to do so according to the goverment does indeed fall into the term "minimal burden" to make such an allowance.

Um, no.

The paragraph does mention flexible scheduling. To be exact, it states:

This means an employer may be required to make reasonable adjustments to the work environment that will allow an employee to practice his or her religion.
Examples of some common religious accommodations include flexible scheduling, voluntary shift substitutions or swaps, job reassignments, and modifications to workplace policies or practices.

The keywords being 'may' and 'reasonable'. I underlined them for you. Then it goes on to list examples of religious accommodations commonly made by employers. It does not specifically state that a cleaning lady has to have a Sunday off, that would be ridiculous.

As mentioned in the OP, it's essential that the cleaners work in the agreed working hours, otherwise it would put a strain on the manager.

And you are STILL missing two aspects of the case, namely that the job description clearly stated the working hours and that the woman applied with that knowledge in mind and also the fact that other religious employees were denied a day off for the very same reason. There is no prejudice or discrimination here, it's the exact opposite.

[Nope]

Drich, I asked how you would feel about hiring a teacher whose religious beliefs  include wearing a phallic symbol around their neck. If Christians get special privileges because of religion than all religions get those same privileges.

[Drich]

Um, no.

The paragraph does mention flexible scheduling. To be exact, it states:

Taken from post 51:
"Religious Discrimination & Reasonable Accommodation
The law requires an employer or other covered entity to reasonably accommodate an employee's religious beliefs or practices, unless doing so would cause more than a minimal burden on the operations of the employer's business. This means an employer may be required to make reasonable adjustments to the work environment that will allow an employee to practice his or her religion.
Examples of some common religious accommodations include flexible scheduling, voluntary shift substitutions or swaps, job reassignments, and modifications to workplace policies or practices."
http://www.eeoc.gov/laws/types/religion.cfm

This means an employer may be required to make reasonable adjustments to the work environment that will allow an employee to practice his or her religion.
Examples of some common religious accommodations include flexible scheduling, voluntary shift substitutions or swaps, job reassignments, and modifications to workplace policies or practices.

The keywords being 'may' and 'reasonable'. I underlined them for you. Then it goes on to list examples of religious accommodations commonly made by employers. It does not specifically state that a cleaning lady has to have a Sunday off, that would be ridiculous.

" Examples of some common religious accommodations include flexible scheduling, "

As mentioned in the OP, it's essential that the cleaners work in the agreed working hours, otherwise it would put a strain on the manager.

Are you seriously this clueless even after I posted a link to the written law? Did you not read what was written, or do you simply 'feel' you version of 'morality' over rides the stautes concerning this?

And you are STILL missing two aspects of the case, namely that the job description clearly stated the working hours and that the woman applied with that knowledge in mind and also the fact that other religious employees were denied a day off for the very same reason. There is no prejudice or discrimination here, it's the exact opposite.

And what you don't seem to get is that if the position was indeed full time than the working hours posted are in direct violation of anti discrimination laws.