Miracle

[Thumpalumpacus]

So, miracles are natural occurrences ... but caused by god(s) ... and we can tell because they're cool?

Is that about right?

[bennyboy]

I think the rule is this: if you could not do something, but Criss Angel or Jesus could, then it's a miracle.

[robvalue]

So, miracles are natural occurrences ... but caused by god(s) ... and we can tell because they're cool?

Is that about right?

Really cool, I think. It requires that no one in the vicinity comes up with an explanation within a full five minutes.

[FreeTony]

Today, physicists are trying to convey an idea of 11 dimensions. This idea is very hard to swallow due to our limitations in conceiving those additional dimensions on rational grounds but scientists are giving convincing equations to support their theories.

Just think for a moment that those 11 dimensions really exist. If so, do you think same conventional physical laws, which regulate our three-dimensional material universe, direct those dimensions as well? Just keep in mind that quantum world has different set of physical laws even though it exists in the same three-dimensional material universe in which we reside.

By logic, those additional dimensions should have different set of laws. Time should have different properties and if there are living beings in those additional dimensions then they essentially have different properties and attributes which should be inexplicable by means of any metaphor of our material three-dimensional universe.

If those dimensions really exist then that means we are living in a world parallel to other unseen world but unaware of it, no matter how close we are to it. Perhaps our three-dimensional universe and those additional dimensions are interacting and influencing each other but we do not have the understanding of it, as our perceptions and conceptions are strictly limited to our three-dimensional material universe.

You have no idea at all what physicists mean by extra dimensions, and have obviously zero understanding of Quantum Mechanics.

Physicists will try to understand this sort of stuff by using, amongst other things, Vector Calculus, Tensor Mathematics and a lot of hard work. You seem to get your understanding from watching old episodes of the Twilight Zone and Star Trek.

You are a bullshitter.

[paulpablo]

When you expose your hand to fire and do not feel the pain then in my opinion:

a. You have some disorder going on in your organ(skin) or
b. You have blocked the sensation of burning by some means or
c. You have trained yourself to resist the burning sensation by developing your patience.

Apart from exceptional cases, every healthy person experiences a hurtful burning sensation if his/her skin exposed to fire.

https://www.boundless.com/psychology/tex...165-12700/

http://www.skin-science.com/_int/_en/top...IN_SURFACE

I was being sarcastic.  Near enough everyone can feel pain in the skin when it burns so the quran revealing that people feel pain from their skin burning is not a miracle.

[Harris]

And nobody can explain why the Quran, which is such a Miracle, is missing infinitely more science than you claim it contains.

comet Wrote: plot the medical miricles for the last five years in a hospital.  Then predict the number for the next year.  There is no magic

bennyboy Wrote: The miracle is that the cure for cancer is already revealed in the Quran. . . which Harris will proudly reveal to us as soon as an actual cure for cancer is found.

I think the rule is this: if you could not do something, but Criss Angel or Jesus could, then it's a miracle.

Scientific facts in Quran obliterate any probability of human involvement in the making of Quran. These scientific facts are not meant to give science lessons.

Quran constantly calls upon the reader to observe the perpetual change of the winds, the alterations of day and night, the clouds, the starry heavens, the planets swimming through infinite space, etc. and by this invites people to reflect on the signs of God’s creation. Reflection only confirms prophecy; what is learned by authority confirmed by investigation.

Quran speaks not only to Muslims, but also to everyone who is able to read and understand it. It constantly urges the reader to consider rationally the evidences for Islam, and so places a high value on reason by offering rational indications of the truth of what it is advocating in terms of signs and proofs.

Islam is a rational system of beliefs and it requires its adherents to attend to rational arguments concerning how they are to behave and think. For example, one accepts that “God does not exist” without questioning how this is possible that whole universe is running with an extreme precision and does not have any leading authority that control all those precise, harmonic, and orderly actions.

Quran specifically and repeatedly asks Muslims to investigate systematically natural phenomena, not simply as a vehicle for understanding nature but also as a means for getting close to God.

“It is He Who made the sun to be a shining glory and the moon to be a light (of beauty), and measured out stages for her (moon); that ye might know the number of years and the count (of time). Nowise did Allah create this but in truth and righteousness. (Thus) doth He explain His Signs in detail, for those who understand.”

“Verily, in the alternation of the night and the day, and in all that Allah hath created, in the heavens and the earth, are signs for those who fear Him.”

Yunus (10)
-Verses 5 – 6 -

You have no idea at all what physicists mean by extra dimensions, and have obviously zero understanding of Quantum Mechanics.

Physicists will try to understand this sort of stuff by using, amongst other things, Vector Calculus, Tensor Mathematics and a lot of hard work. You seem to get your understanding from watching old episodes of the Twilight Zone and Star Trek.

“The idea of a parallel world that took a different course at some critical historical junction is a favourite theme of science-fiction authors. But as real science, I have always dismissed such ideas as frivolous nonsense. But to my surprise I find myself talking and thinking about just such matters.”

Chapter Eleven under the heading
Many worlds

The Cosmic Landscape
Leonard Susskind


Susskind has made the independent discovery of the string theory model of particle physics.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonard_Susskind

I was being sarcastic.  Near enough everyone can feel pain in the skin when it burns so the quran revealing that people feel pain from their skin burning is not a miracle.
Email PM Find

Here you go astray. People have only recently discovered neurons and found how they conduct and interpret signals, including sensations such as pain, within the body. Before that, people had no idea of what causes pain when skin exposed to the fire.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_pain_theory

[paulpablo]

Here you go astray. People have only recently discovered neurons and found how they conduct and interpret signals, including sensations such as pain, within the body. Before that, people had no idea of what causes pain when skin exposed to the fire.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_pain_theory

The quran doesn't give ANY scientific knowledge of neurons or how they are used to conduct and interpret signals or sensations.

"Indeed, those who disbelieve in Our verses - We will drive them into a Fire. Every time their skins are roasted through We will replace them with other skins so they may taste the punishment. Indeed, Allah is ever Exalted in Might and Wise."

The only information required to write this verse is that burning of the skin hurts.

[robvalue]

What? The "scientific facts" in the Quran disprove "human involvement"?

You don't think humans wrote the words down? I'd say it has nothing but human involvement by pure observation, the only question is whether there is room for any other kind of involvement.

Also, that makes no sense. Scientific knowledge and being God are two completely unrelated things. "You're so clever, you must be God"? If I knew loads of stuff that scientists don't know now and wouldn't learn for 2000 years, does that make me God? Or have I missed the window for application?

[bennyboy]

This is moving away from philosophy and into mindless proselytizing. Recommend relocation to a Religious Bullshit forum.

[Harris]

The quran doesn't give ANY scientific knowledge of neurons or how they are used to conduct and interpret signals or sensations.

"Indeed, those who disbelieve in Our verses - We will drive them into a Fire. Every time their skins are roasted through We will replace them with other skins so they may taste the punishment. Indeed, Allah is ever Exalted in Might and Wise."

The only information required to write this verse is that burning of the skin hurts.

I had given you a very good article, which clearly exhibits how people refer to pain in the history. They thought that sense of pain only depends on the brain or heart. However, recent researches show that it is in fact the skin, which contain pain receptors without which a person would not be able to feel pain. Therefore, the previous thought that brain or heart is responsible for pain turned out to be false.

For example, many doctors determine degree of burn by a pinprick. If the patient feels pain, it indicates that the burns are superficial and the pain receptors are intact. However, if the patient does not feel any pain that pinprick supposed to cause, it indicates that it is a deep burn and the pain receptors have been destroyed.

Now link this example with the verse of Quran:

“Those who reject our Signs, We shall soon cast into the Fire: as often as their skins are roasted through, We shall change them for fresh skins, that they may taste the penalty: for Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise.”
An Nisaa (4)
-Verse 56-

This verse gives clear indication that roasted skin is a dead skin (no pain receptors) for that reason God will give fresh skin to the transgressor to continue his/her punishment.

Compare the article with this verse and contemplate whether the author of this verse was a man living in 7th century or not.

What? The "scientific facts" in the Quran disprove "human involvement"?

You don't think humans wrote the words down? I'd say it has nothing but human involvement by pure observation, the only question is whether there is room for any other kind of involvement.

Also, that makes no sense. Scientific knowledge and being God are two completely unrelated things. "You're so clever, you must be God"? If I knew loads of stuff that scientists don't know now and wouldn't learn for 2000 years, does that make me God? Or have I missed the window for application?

That is the point, how can someone make observation to unknown phenomenon without preliminary knowhow and proper tools. I can give you tons of evidences that would prove the incapacity of Prophet Mohammad and of anyone who was living in 7th century, to learn and conceptualise these contemporary scientific facts.

A violent example is the expansion of universe. Do you think anyone in 7th century was able to observe how the universe is expanding? Hubble discovered this fact just recently and even Einstein was in doubt about this fact so how comes an illiterate Bedouin knew this extra ordinary scientific fact in 7th Century AD.

Not anyone by any means can justify the presence of scientific facts in Quran even by providing them with a philosophical foundation. That is because the presence of scientific facts in Quran is in utter violation of natural laws. The only logical justification is GOD who is the Creator of everything.

This is moving away from philosophy and into mindless proselytizing. Recommend relocation to a Religious Bullshit forum.

Can you provide a philosophical base to the scientific facts mentioned in Quran?