Atheism, Evidence and the God-of-the-Gaps

[Jenny A]

That's what former atheists who convert to Christianity typically do...they study the story first...and come to believe that it is reasonable to believe.

So, yes, of course there's "real" evidence, Jenny. I can give you a dozen reasons to believe that the NT is historically reliable. Tim O'Neill gave the forum reasons why Jesus is not a myth. There are solid reasons to think that the resurrection really happened.

The problem is that none of this is "real" in your opinion. Other folks, equally skeptical at first (and equally intelligent), have arrived at a different conclusion.

You have yet to provide evidence showing the NT is historically reliable.  I find it just about as reliable as Tim O'Neill which is not very.  I'll repeat myself:  I'm pretty sure a man named Jesus was baptized by John the Baptist and preached in and around Galilee, and that he was crucified in Jerusalem.   I'm also sure Paul lived, started churches and preached and that he wrote some of the letters attributed to him.  But the rest of the details are not the least bit reliable for reasons explained to you over and over in your various threads.

[JuliaL]

Why are they all simultaneously looking into the sky?

Um, maybe for the same reason these sheeple are all looking down?


Somebody told them to.

[Cato]

Just finished my daily check of this thread to discover Randy's God is still missing. I expect more of the same tomorrow.

That's because you're looking in the wrong place. I expect more of the same tomorrow.

Another day, another no-show. Even George Jones stayed sober enough to make an occasional appearance. Randy, you've got nothing.

[Ravenshire]

Apparently, many people are.  I just figure the money dropped out of my pockets, but that's just me.

Ah, but Jenny, don't you see it? God planned for you to drop the money out of your pocket without realizing it so that you would find it later.

Simple, huh?

How many kids died of starvation in Africa while your gawd was playing "Easter Egg" with Jenny's spare change?!?

[Ravenshire]

He was also a big fan of that Catholic priest turned anti-Semite Martin Luther whose influence on Germany fueled the racist and gruesome treatment of Jews. And unlike with Nietzsche, nobody had to grossly misunderstand Luther's writings to use them in support of Nazi fascism.

FORMER Catholic priest, Nestor. Former Catholic priest.

Was he excommunicated? Honest question.

[Ravenshire]

Hmm, why would it be that some people saw this miracle and others did not?

Simple, really. The ones who saw were the ones with open minds.

























































































































So open their brains fell out.

[Ravenshire]

I don't know, Randy; Why were they staring up at the sky?

Why can't you answer this?  It's definitely related to your OP; or is it that you don't want to answer because you know what the response will be?  You've just come full-circle back to what you're arguing against... but I think you realize that, and that's why you've abandoned thread.

(emphasis is mine)

Well, if you're saying Randy's a pussy...

[abaris]

Lock it if you like. I'm done.

(Hitler and Nietzsche will have to wait...that's not what this thread was about.)

Figures.

[Longhorn]

Those are observations, not presuppositions, Randy. They are conclusions that I came to.

are the children dying every day only a lie then? Do the 21 major religious groups in the world today all worship the same thing despite contradicting each other significantly?

What place does toxocariasis (caused by eye-burrowing parasites that literally eat children's eyeballs) have in this design? Why is the world so imperfectly constructed if it had a perfect creator?

And now, instead of dodging my points with falsely identified logical fallacies I wasn't guilty of committing, would you be so kind as to put the condescension aside and actually address my post? Believe it or not, I'm here for discussion and your dismissive attitude is killing it.

Let me ask again: what are the steps in your reasoning that lead you from the conclusion of a creator to a theistic god, then your deity, then your denomination? [emphasis added]

If you aren't taking me seriously Randy, say so. I don't want to waste my time if you're not willing to engage.

Well, I was about to address the problem of evil which is what you first two or three questions are about, but then I read again and saw the question I have highlighted above. Which am I supposed to be answering?

They relate to more or less the same thing. Adress the bolded part. Present the line of reasoning that led you from a creator to Yahweh to catholic Yahweh.

[Tonus]

Is there one in particular that strikes you as clear evidence of the hand of god in action?

It would be better to read a good book on Fatima...then all of the photos will be more meaningful.

So I'd require a books worth of explanation just for it to be more meaningful? That's different from just pointing out why those pictures allow us to conclude that we're seeing a display of the divine.

I'm not too big on Grilled Cheezus personally, but my opinion on Fatima is that "an extraordinary message from God requires an extraordinary confirmation from God."

As much as I can be awestruck by the sun bursting through a break in the clouds after a rainstorm, I'm not sure how the event would be extraordinary confirmation from god. The recollections from the event did not match very well (some people reporting seeing nothing out of the ordinary at all, which strikes me as odd in a scenario where a crowd of people is deliberately staring into the sun... unless they didn't stare into the sun, which makes the resulting experiences somewhat more understandable).

What would've been cool was an image of Christ announcing the end of the war, and the sudden cessation of hostilities across the continent. That would've been pretty extraordinary, and practical as well!

It's the stumbling part I disagree with. I think God knows exactly when to play his cards with each one of us personally.

Do you think that he does that? That he puts the knowledge within reach of each of us on some personalized level, thus giving us all a shot at salvation?

The scriptures say that Adam walked with God in the garden. They were friends. What did Eve think she had to fear at that point? God had never been angry with her before. As for death, no, that came later...God banished them from the Garden so that they would not eat of the tree of life and live forever...so "preferring death" was not actually on the table, yet.

That makes it sound as if god left creation to its own devices without sufficient knowledge as to what their actions would mean. Was Eve defenseless against the lies of the serpent, because she'd never been lied to? If death wasn't on the table until god defined it, how did the serpent understand the concept of the lie?

The late Christopher Hitchens once stated that even if God existed he would not worship him because such a being would, in his mind, differ little from an earthly dictator. If God constantly watched over us from the sky like a towering Goliath, this might only reinforce the attitude held by people like Hitchens that God has put us in a police state.

Hitchens was protesting against the concept of the abrahamic god, whom he describes as an angry, jealous tyrant from whom we cannot escape and who makes an offer that he finds unreasonable: worship such a person forever, or suffer excruciating pain forever. Sure, I wouldn't want that god to be real, and if he was I'd be very frightened. But nonetheless, I think we are better off knowing anything for sure than wondering.