Atheism, Evidence and the God-of-the-Gaps

[Randy Carson]

What type of evidence or proof would you accept? Because of your presuppositions, you can’t examine any evidence or proof that I might show you without bias.

Your presupposition is this: there is no God. Therefore, no matter what I might present, you will and must interpret it in a manner consistent with that presupposition.

• If I showed you a video tape of God coming down from heaven, you’d say it was done with special effects.
• If I had a thousand eye-witnesses saying that they saw it, you'd say it was mass-hysteria.
• If I showed you Old Testament prophecies fulfilled in the new Testament, you'd say they were forged, dated incorrectly or simply misinterpreted.

So, I don’t think I can show you any evidence of God’s existence that you will accept because your presuppositions will not allow you to consider that evidence objectively.

This actually says more about you than it does about the evidence itself because many people have examined the evidence for God’s existence, and they have become convinced that He really does exist.

So, until you can show me the type of evidence that you would be willing to accept as convincing proof of God’s existence, I doubt I can provide what you need.

And here we come to the point of THIS thread...if there is no evidence that can falsify atheism, then it is not based on science; it is a faith position.

a lot of times it is not the evidence; It is how we use it.  I personally don't have a problem with what people believe many times.  The data clearly shows "something" is more valid over "no-nothing".  I have do have a problem with how literal religious people push their personal emotional needs on my stone cold logic as more "true".  Sure, I could use a little more of the "warm and fuzzy", but don't cover me in the slime.

I will make a note to never do that.

[abaris]

See the avatar? I didn't choose it because I have a thing for Yellow Jackets. I've taken a class or two.

Interesting. Please, do share, since you saw fit to question our credibility in one of your previous threads.

[Randy Carson]

For the atheist, just getting to the possibility that God even exists is a major undertaking. The rest gets easier after that.

Oh really? Do enlighten me how

It's obvious that if there is a creator-note that I'm not using the word god before we establish a coherent definition-he clearly [emphasis added] doesn't give two shits about his creation and is laughably incompetent....but how do you get from that creator to a theistic god?

And how do you get from a theistic god to your pet deity? And from that pet deity to your particular denomination?Could it be....special pleading? -_-

Clearly? He clearly doesn't care and is laughably incompetent?

No...no presuppositions there.

[Randy Carson]

I can't speak about atheist dogma, but I can say this with confidence: a lot of folks who post here regularly are convinced that while science has not explained everything yet, eventually, it will. Only Julia L (or Jenny A - I get them confused) has said that no, science cannot answer every question.

I told you in your other thread that it cannot, as well. And I wonder how many others you're paraphrasing wrongly with this clear misstatement.

You've got two ears and one mouth for a reason.  Use them in that order.

You've got two hands and two sets of strings and frets on your guitar. What order do you use them in?

[Randy Carson]

I see Randy is still incapable of producing this God he keeps rambling on about.

No, but the God I keep rambling on about was capable of producing me.

[Chad32]

Were you created as a dirt golem? Can I call you Adam?

[Randy Carson]

Alternatively, rob, you might consider that God's love is so great that He did all of this, created all of this, specifically for our benefit.

That's rich. Cancer is to our benefit. So are black widows, defective brakes, tsunamis, and metal fatigue in the left wing of the airplane you're flying in.

Yeah, spare me the "god is good all the time" horseshit.  You worship an evil god, and you're so morally blind you cannot see that simple fact. You worship a god who sentenced every human who ever lived to death, for the "sin" of the first two. You worship a god who has commanded, and committed, genocides. You worship a god who practices scapegoat justice -- and you are comfortable with a scapegoat relieving you of your obligation to be moral.

You apparently have no idea what kind of God I worship. What you've written above reveals your ignorance. If you want to learn, however, here's a great book:

[Randy Carson]

I'd like to believe that what you're saying is true, Neimenovic, but I'm not convinced it is.

I think that a sizable number of atheists come across something that supports theism, and they don't stop to say, "Hey, maybe this is better than all the lame arguments I've heard in the past...let me consider this." No, they set about finding fault with it because they know in advance that there is no God.

This is a mere assertion, and a strawman

While it may be true of some, I know atheists who really sincerely wanted or still want to believe, but they are not convinced by the arguments and I would argue that those who presuppose god does not exist are in the minority

Who in this forum falls into this category, Neimenovic?

Now, the converse is equally true: the Christian/theist hears an objection to his or her belief and thinks, "Well, that doesn't square with what I believe; what is the error in this atheist argument?"

Both sides are equally guilty in this regard.

Well, I'm glad you admit that, Randy.

I didn't think that was much to admit, but okay.

He did, and we killed Him.

Gott ist tot, huh? What's stopping him from doing it again, without assuming the mantle of a half mad Jew? He didn't do a very good job for the first time. Certainly not sufficiently good for a deity

So, an omniscient God needs a mulligan?

[Randy Carson]

This is off-topic, but I am curious about the point I highlighted in your post. To whom are you referring?

Hitler. That guy from Germany with the concentration camps. Also started world war II. Not that jews were the only people he killed.

Please don't tell me you've never heard of people beng killed for heresy or apostasy, or I'll have to believe you're being willfully ignorant or dishonest.

Hitler was a big fan of Nietzsche. That was the influence that led to the Holocaust.

[Iroscato]

Who in this forum falls into this category, Neimenovic?

I do, for one. An emotional part of me wishes there was some evidence of a higher power, just so that the question of where this universe came from was answered (before we even get into the problem of where the creator came from).
I also did struggle for a while with what faith I had as a child, before I realised the utter lack of evidence meant I could no longer simply have blind faith. That was before I reached double figures, I struggle to think how grown-ass adults still do it daily.