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RE: What IS good, and how do we determine it?
June 16, 2015 at 9:52 pm
(June 16, 2015 at 9:48 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Quote:I am being 100% honest. I still would know that hurting others is wrong. I would still feel sorry for people. But if I believed all we were was just... material, I wouldn't be able to explain *why* it would be so important to treat others well. I would know it was, but I wouldn't know where that came from.
Well, okay, if you say so........but, whats wrong with any of the numerous reasons given in this thread...or even in the response you just gave me..right up there while claiming you wouldn't know....that you have empathy? That's a powerful explanation that you, apparently, didn't realize that you just gave. It's the same explanation given by a great many people.
Like I said, I would still have empathy, but empathy alone cannot explain why a particular action is wrong, since empathy can be so subjective. But then again, you guys believe morality is subjective, so perhaps I shouldn't say what I would think if I did not believe in God.
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh
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RE: What IS good, and how do we determine it?
June 16, 2015 at 9:55 pm
(This post was last modified: June 16, 2015 at 9:59 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Why can't it? Just because empathy is subjective doesn't mean that it can't inform your moral standards. -Everything you perceive- is subjective...and yet you lean on those things in order to inform your moralaity...your belief, as I've been trying to explain to you, is extraneous and irrelevant (and also subjective...as you are free to believe in an exceedingly subjective way). You've given an entirely satisfactory explanation of why you perceive some things to be morally wrong which simply doesn't have anything to do with a god, regardless of whether or not you believe in one. Sure, someone may disagree, but so what...we'll hit them over the head with bricks or lock them in a closest in west texas if they step out of line.
We got this, brah.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: What IS good, and how do we determine it?
June 16, 2015 at 10:01 pm
Quote:Homosexuality is not wrong
But you think engaging in homosexual acts is, if I read correctly? The crux of my point was, why would god keep on creating gay people who must every day suppress their natural urges if they don't want to end up in hell?
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RE: What IS good, and how do we determine it?
June 16, 2015 at 10:04 pm
"A wise man ... proportions his belief to the evidence."
— David Hume, An Enquiry Concerning Human Understanding, Section X, Part I.
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RE: What IS good, and how do we determine it?
June 16, 2015 at 10:09 pm
(June 16, 2015 at 4:13 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: (June 16, 2015 at 3:47 pm)rexbeccarox Wrote: Not to mention the fact that there are any child molesters at all involved with an organization which claims to have The Objective Moral Truths.
Catholicism does not condone molestation. Neither does it condone covering it up. The Catholics who molested children as well as those who covered it up were going against Church teaching. 
There are bad people in every group. Catholics are no different.
Yet they were protected by Catholics, as well. "By the tree shall ye know the fruit."
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RE: What IS good, and how do we determine it?
June 16, 2015 at 10:14 pm
(This post was last modified: June 16, 2015 at 10:16 pm by Thumpalumpacus.)
(June 16, 2015 at 9:39 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: I am sorry Minimalist, but I do not know where or when I made excuses for people who molest or for people who cover it up. I have repeatedly stated that those 2 things are very very wrong. I am sorry if I gave you the impression that I believe differently. Rest assured, such is definitely not the case.
Do you still donate when the plate passes you?
(June 16, 2015 at 5:07 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: (June 16, 2015 at 4:43 pm)FatAndFaithless Wrote: Helluva first thread to slog through, CL. Thanks for your patience and politeness, refreshing compared to some of the folks that have come around recently.
I know I said I wasn't coming back here till tomorrow but I just wanted to poke my head in real quick and say that I like you. 
F&F is good folk, even if the little bastard denies liking me. Hmph.
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RE: What IS good, and how do we determine it?
June 16, 2015 at 10:18 pm
(June 16, 2015 at 9:39 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Homosexuality is not wrong.
You are quite the illogical lady.
According to you, homosexuality is not wrong, but engaging in homosexual acts is wrong.
It is akin to stating that being a killer is not wrong, but killing someone is wrong.
"What a little moonlight can do." ~ Billie Holiday
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RE: What IS good, and how do we determine it?
June 16, 2015 at 11:18 pm
(This post was last modified: June 16, 2015 at 11:21 pm by Catholic_Lady.)
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh
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RE: What IS good, and how do we determine it?
June 16, 2015 at 11:39 pm
(June 16, 2015 at 11:18 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Like I said, the people who protected these molesters are just as much at fault. The Church does not condone this.
And yet, the church hierarchy has and does protect the perpetrators at the expense of the victims.
How's that dissonance?
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RE: What IS good, and how do we determine it?
June 16, 2015 at 11:43 pm
(June 16, 2015 at 11:18 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Like I said, the people who protected these molesters are just as much at fault. The Church does not condone this.
I'm not saying the Church condoned it. But it sure as hell protected them.
And furthermore, you have ignored Jesus's point, that the essential qualities of an organization imbue its members.
What would Jesus think of a Catholic Church which shelters child molesters against justice?
And -- do you still donate to the plate? Do you support a church which protects molesters?
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