What IS good, and how do we determine it?

[popsthebuilder]

The law came from the same thing that everything else came from; a higher power.

[Godscreated]

What does the moral high ground have to do with abusing children, the people who abuse children whether part of the church, a street thug or school teacher are guilty of a immoral and illegal action, period. Not only that, when was the public school system not a place that up holds morality.

GC

I understand why people think it is worse/more scandalous when church clergy does it than when school staff does it. I actually agree with them. Church clergy are representing God, and with great power comes great responsibility. It's particularly terrible when someone who claims to be a man of God does it.

In your first post to me you mentioned name calling, don't worry about it I've been here over five years and use to it, I do not like it when they use God's name in vain, especially when it's done to irritate me and I will tell them so. Besides I'm guilty of name calling myself, only I do not use unpleasant words as they do.

I can't it's a horrible thing and all should be under the equal punishment of our laws. I do understand that God holds these men to a higher standard and a stronger punishment will be dealt to them because of the greater responsibility they have . I also believe that anyone claiming to be a Christian and commits such an act will find God holding them to a higher standard.

What I don't understand is why people are willing to basically say "priests are bad" but not willing to say "teachers are bad". Especially since it has happened soooo much more often with teachers.

You haven't been here long enough to see that their prize bashing go to the Christians, no matter what denomination. The reason I put up my first post in this thread was to draw their attention to what you were saying, they jump on me and I was hoping that would bring out the teachers in this discussion. Whether it was successful or not I do not know.

And why people are willing to say "well, since out of a billion Catholics, there is a very small percentage of bad seeds, I think Catholicism in general is just bad" and yet they are not willing to say "well, since out of a billion teachers, there is a very small percentage of bad seeds, I think schools/education in general is just bad."

Like I mentioned earlier, they only care about putting down Christianity, they have been nice to you because you have keep the strong Christian composure all the Christians here should, and most of us start out like you have, but most of us give into our other nature and fire back at them. I'm not saying all the nonbelievers here are bad, some are quite nice and control what they say. With them one can have good discussions.

There are a small percentage of bad people in every group and in every establishment. This does not make the entire group itself bad, nor does it make the establishment as a whole bad. The only time this seems to apply is when we are discussing Catholic priests, and I don't understand why. But it is what it is, and I'm ok with that.

Actually for the unbelievers here anything to do with Christianity has an open season on it, not just Catholic priest.
Your attitude is great, keep your Christianity out front and don't give into the old nature.

GC

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[popsthebuilder]

Its not for brownie points. Can you not conclude that there may be a possibility that good begets good and if everyone could unify that we would have know barriers intellectually, and spiritually? Perhaps this glorious righteous unity could allow us to evade certain eventual extinction either due to not advanced enough a species to migrate to another inhabitable planet in time or by not being unified enough to alter this planets cycles and or stages.

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No barriers

[Godscreated]

If god is added to the equation, it changes nothing as far as morality is concerned.  People who believe that morality is merely following what god says are grossly mistaken.

What is there to learn, atheism is not believing, even the dead can accomplish that.

GC

[Catholic_Lady]

oh hey, Randy's here.... -_-

CL, I think you missed it, and it's important to me that you read it

[hide]
[quote='Neimenovic' pid='967238' dateline='1434569460']



....because aside from 'god sez', you don't have a case to make

You know what? I will own up to that.

Well, partially anyway. It goes much deeper than just "because God says", but I will agree that God plays a big role in my views regarding sexual morality. I cannot divorce God from my views of sexual morality.

And like I already mentioned, which must've been buried in all the other replies, contraception takes care of all of that. But pope and crew say it's a no no. Shooting yourself in the foot on their part, don't you think? Abstinence doesn't work, it's a fact.

Well first of all, since the Church already teaches that premarital sex is immoral, it doesn't really matter whether a couple who is not married uses contraception or not. The Church doesn't say people who aren't married shouldn't use contraception. The Church says people who aren't married shouldn't have sex lol. It's a moot point.

Second, contraception is widely available and accessible. Yet unplanned, out of wedlock pregnancies still happen all the time. The fact that contraception exists and is available and and easily accessible unfortunately has not taken care of the problem. Either because people don't use it properly, don't use it at all, or it simply fails to work.

I'd still say the far superior method of avoiding out of wedlock pregnancy is to just not have sex until marriage.

And regarding being used....ever heard of matrimonial frauds? Or people in committed relationships that aren't married? Surely you don't think marriage is the only way to a stable relationship and without it all relationships are not sincere?....

I have addressed this multiple times in my post about it, because I knew people would still come back and say "but bad stuff can still happen in marriages!" I did not specify "matrimonial frauds," but I did address that marriages aren't always a guarantee of anything, but tend to be the best bet nonetheless. I also addressed the committed relationship thing specifically, in a post shortly afterwards. I've got my hands full now and can't dig it up for you, but would recommend you go look if you are still interested.

And you're still ignoring what I said.

Please pay attention to this, I think it's very important.

The views you hold, the same that the catholic church holds, are being taught to children. They cause sexual repression, shame over one's feelings, severe guilt and do not prevent unwanted pregnancies or STDs. They are harmful and immoral, on all grounds. The teaching of them causes very real harm that is very hard to recover from. This is not right.

I apologize, I did not mean to ignore you.

I do agree that there are 2 ways of going about teaching children sexual morality. Just like everything else, there is a right way and a wrong way of going about doing this.

The decision itself of saving sex for marriage is not bad or harmful in and of itself, and neither is it bad or harmful to teach others the great benefits of doing so. It's the way it is done that can be harmful, just like with everything else as I mentioned above.

I agree that it is an important subject that must be handled with care. Not to instil guilt or fear into people who have or eventually do fall into it, is key. I was taught to wait until marriage, and so was my husband. We have many Catholic friends who also waited and are happily married, lovely people. It has worked really well for us and I am so happy that I was taught what I was taught. I feel like perhaps I could've faced some negative consequences that would have complicated my life if I had slept with other men before my husband. It's definitely something I will pass on to my children.

I think you're a sweet person and I don't understand how you can endorse this. I figured maybe it's because you're not aware.

Your church, in its teachings, harms children. This is not an exaggeration. The very doctrine of that organisation which claims moral authority causes significant hurt.

Now that I know you're aware, how can you associate yourself with that institution and believe such awful things?

Thank you for the compliment!

I understand and appreciate your concern, but I think you may have been led to believe a bit of an exaggeration, though you don't realize it. This doom and gloom you speak of above has not been my experience at all. And I am saying this as a Catholic who grew up in the Catholic Church. I have a Catholic family, I went to Catholic school, I was involved in my family parish, etc. I cannot relate at all to what you say above. I'm not saying no one has bad experiences, but I do think you're making it out to be far more than it is.

[Jenny A]

The law came from the same thing that everything else came from;  a higher power.

Need to see three things:

1) Evidence of that higher power;

2) Evidence it created or endorses the law;

3) Evidence we know what that law is.


?

[Catholic_Lady]

In your first post to me you mentioned name calling, don't worry about it I've been here over five years and use to it, I do not like it when they use God's name in vain, especially when it's done to irritate me and I will tell them so. Besides I'm guilty of name calling myself, only I do not use unpleasant words as they do.

I can't it's a horrible thing and all should be under the equal punishment of our laws. I do understand that God holds these men to a higher standard and a stronger punishment will be dealt to them because of the greater responsibility they have . I also believe that anyone claiming to be a Christian and commits such an act will find God holding them to a higher standard.



You haven't been here long enough to see that their prize bashing go to the Christians, no matter what denomination. The reason I put up my first post in this thread was to draw their attention to what you were saying, they jump on me and I was hoping that would bring out the teachers in this discussion. Whether it was successful or not I do not know.




Like I mentioned earlier, they only care about putting down Christianity, they have been nice to you because you have keep the strong Christian composure all the Christians here should, and most of us start out like you have, but most of us give into our other nature and fire back at them. I'm not saying all the nonbelievers here are bad, some are quite nice and control what they say. With them one can have good discussions.



Actually for the unbelievers here anything to do with Christianity has an open season on it, not just Catholic priest.
Your attitude is great, keep your Christianity out front and don't give into the old nature.

GC

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Thank you for the compliments GC. I'm glad you're here and I'm glad you brought attention to this!

[popsthebuilder]

I really wish I could prove it. All I can say is the proof is in the pudding. I think many people of old felt the same way but instead of accurate recording in ancient text we have flaw, contradiction, alteration motives. All the cause of evil. The opposite side of the coin. Many strived to attempt to leave the right message though.

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Anterior motives, caused by evil or wrong

[The Grand Nudger]

Careful tickling that ones martyr knob Cath....you don't know where it's been. Ever get around to digging up that response you mentioned?
(the one that explains the moral distinction between monogamous heterosexual sex within a marriage...and monogamous homosexual sex within a marriage?)

[popsthebuilder]

Cant see when im tired.

Alterior