Posts: 15452
Threads: 147
Joined: June 15, 2015
Reputation:
88
RE: What IS good, and how do we determine it?
June 22, 2015 at 12:37 pm
(This post was last modified: June 22, 2015 at 12:42 pm by Catholic_Lady.)
(June 22, 2015 at 12:17 pm)Stimbo Wrote: (June 22, 2015 at 11:58 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote: No, we can say/do what we'd like. We are not forced to act or think according to Church teaching. We always have a choice.
Yeah - it was a joke.
I figured you were just trying to mock me, but I like to give people the benefit of the doubt and to always act as though I assume the best of everyone.
(June 22, 2015 at 12:26 pm)rexbeccarox Wrote: (June 22, 2015 at 12:14 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Becca, I have spent the last few pages explaining the difference between the morality of objective act and a person's moral culpability.
Check out my post 1505 for more clarification.
 Lol, trust me I know exactly how you feel.
Truth is Becca, you and I just disagree on the anatomy of the whole thing. You see objective acts and personal culpability as being one, indistinguishable thing. I see them as being 2 separate things. Which makes sense, because I believe in God, and you don't.
At the end of the day, we were both able to come to the same conclusion about the woman in your story... which is really all that matters as far as we're concerned. The conclusion being that she should be found innocent of the crime of murder, and that her culpability is eliminated.
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh
Posts: 25314
Threads: 239
Joined: August 26, 2010
Reputation:
156
RE: What IS good, and how do we determine it?
June 22, 2015 at 12:43 pm
Oh for the love of all that's human, I wasn't mocking you! If anything, I was mocking the Catholic church's unfortunate reputation for being in the news for all the wrong reasons.
CL, if we're going to have any hope of a grown-up discussion, you're going to have to switch off your martyr chip. Not everything is a goddamn personal attack on you. 
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
Posts: 7318
Threads: 75
Joined: April 18, 2015
Reputation:
73
RE: What IS good, and how do we determine it?
June 22, 2015 at 12:43 pm
(This post was last modified: June 22, 2015 at 12:44 pm by Longhorn.)
(June 22, 2015 at 12:32 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: defined by a person =/= created by God
Remember when I said I believe morality was created by God?
Remember, I do not believe God is a person. Perhaps the word defined was not the best word for me to use. Created would be much more accurate.
'Created' is irrelevant. Does god have a mind? A point of view? An opinion? That means subjective.
How do you know you're right?
said the Little Prince, because he never let go of a question if he asked it.
Ignoring things won't make them go away....especially if those things are me 
Quote:I understand this. My question was, would the boy be more prone to suicide if his offender is behind bars for life verses if he was dead?
If so, do you support the death penalty for child molesters?
I don't support death penalty for anybody. Does it matter? It wouldn't make a difference.
Posts: 7318
Threads: 75
Joined: April 18, 2015
Reputation:
73
RE: What IS good, and how do we determine it?
June 22, 2015 at 12:43 pm
(June 22, 2015 at 12:34 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Correct.
Like I said last night, I believe the only time it is morally permissible to kill another person is in self defense, and in justifiable war (which I believe to be very few, btw).
I do not believe in the death sentence.
Which means, things aren't always 'objectively' wrong. See?
Posts: 15452
Threads: 147
Joined: June 15, 2015
Reputation:
88
RE: What IS good, and how do we determine it?
June 22, 2015 at 12:44 pm
(This post was last modified: June 22, 2015 at 12:45 pm by Catholic_Lady.)
(June 22, 2015 at 12:32 pm)Neimenovic Wrote: Right! And he killed those people because he didn't think it was wrong! And why is that?
Because.....wait for it....morality is subjective! Ta-dah!
As I have said. I believe that just because someone doesn't think something is immoral, doesn't mean it isn't so. That person is simply wrong in his assessment of the morality of killing 10 people.
I think we'll just have to agree to disagree on this.
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh
Posts: 7318
Threads: 75
Joined: April 18, 2015
Reputation:
73
RE: What IS good, and how do we determine it?
June 22, 2015 at 12:45 pm
(June 22, 2015 at 12:44 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: (June 22, 2015 at 12:32 pm)Neimenovic Wrote: Right! And he killed those people because he didn't think it was wrong! And why is that?
Because.....wait for it....morality is subjective! Ta-dah!
As I have said. I believe that just because someone doesn't think something is wrong, doesn't mean it isn't so. That person is simply wrong about it.
I think we'll just have to agree to disagree on this.
It's wrong TO YOU. But not TO HIM. That it's wrong is YOUR OPINION. SUBJECTIVE. See?
Posts: 25314
Threads: 239
Joined: August 26, 2010
Reputation:
156
RE: What IS good, and how do we determine it?
June 22, 2015 at 12:46 pm
You want a prophecy with that?
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
Posts: 15452
Threads: 147
Joined: June 15, 2015
Reputation:
88
RE: What IS good, and how do we determine it?
June 22, 2015 at 12:47 pm
(This post was last modified: June 22, 2015 at 12:49 pm by Catholic_Lady.)
(June 22, 2015 at 12:43 pm)Neimenovic Wrote: (June 22, 2015 at 12:34 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Correct.
Like I said last night, I believe the only time it is morally permissible to kill another person is in self defense, and in justifiable war (which I believe to be very few, btw).
I do not believe in the death sentence.
Which means, things aren't always 'objectively' wrong. See?
You are correct. Some acts are not objectively wrong. Some are.
Murder is objectively wrong. Rape is objectively wrong.
You have to remember that to kill =/= to murder. Murder already implies that the killing was a wrongful killing.
Killing is more broad than murder, which can include self defense. Which is not wrong.
(June 22, 2015 at 12:45 pm)Neimenovic Wrote: (June 22, 2015 at 12:44 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: As I have said. I believe that just because someone doesn't think something is wrong, doesn't mean it isn't so. That person is simply wrong about it.
I think we'll just have to agree to disagree on this.
It's wrong TO YOU. But not TO HIM. That it's wrong is YOUR OPINION. SUBJECTIVE. See?
Lol yes, I get that you think it's subjective. I just disagree. That's all there is to it at this point.
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh
Posts: 13900
Threads: 262
Joined: January 11, 2009
Reputation:
82
RE: What IS good, and how do we determine it?
June 22, 2015 at 12:49 pm
(June 22, 2015 at 12:44 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: (June 22, 2015 at 12:32 pm)Neimenovic Wrote: Right! And he killed those people because he didn't think it was wrong! And why is that?
Because.....wait for it....morality is subjective! Ta-dah!
As I have said. I believe that just because someone doesn't think something is wrong, doesn't mean it isn't so. That person is simply wrong about it.
I think we'll just have to agree to disagree on this.
There is no ultimate arbiter of morality, what is moral is what is accepted by societies at the time.
So if someone thinks that something is not wrong and the zeitgeist agrees then it is not wrong.
You can fix ignorance, you can't fix stupid.
Tinkety Tonk and down with the Nazis.
Posts: 25314
Threads: 239
Joined: August 26, 2010
Reputation:
156
RE: What IS good, and how do we determine it?
June 22, 2015 at 12:51 pm
(This post was last modified: June 22, 2015 at 12:51 pm by Cyberman.)
Is it objectively wrong to push a knife deliberately into the body of another person?
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
|
