Bart Ehrman May Shed Light on the Christian Response to Charleston, South Carolina

[Rhondazvous]

These are a few of the scriptures that allow Christians to hold onto their faith despite the apparent indifference of their god.

Psalm 16:15
Precious in the sight of the LORD is the death of his saints.

Matthew 10:29-31
Are not two sparrows sold for a farthing? And not one of them falls to the ground without your Father. But the very hairs of your head are numbered…Fear not you are of more value than many sparrows.

In other words god sees and is aware of what happened in Charleston. Christians are not to see the fact that he did nothing as a reason to stop believing. It is enough that he merely knows.

John 11:26
Whosoever lives and believes in me shall never die. Believe thou this?

Like Mary, millions of Christians down the ages have believed this. And the more they see other Christians dying, the more strongly they tell themselves they must believe it.

By couching the Charleston tragedy in terms of Christian persecution Fox News has made it possible for believers to identify with the Christian martyrs of the ancient world and they are encouraged to take heart and face the hungry lions of the 21st century.

In Bart Herman’s excellent book, God’s Problem, I read how the Judaism moved away from the teachings of the prophets to apocalyptic theology after the Babylonian destruction of Jerusalem. The prophets taught that suffering came as punishment for sin. It took a couple hundred years to make the shift but after the Babylonians, it became so obvious that it was the people who were trying to obey god who were doing all the suffering that a wholesale shift in theology became inevitable.

Despite the efforts of Fox News, this could happen in the modern world. It may be happening right now. His Eye is on the Sparrow may actually be Christianity’s swan song. But the ancient Jews did not abandon their god. They simply went from believing in rewards and punishments in this life to believing in rewards and punishments in an afterlife. Like matter, faith cannot be destroyed. It can only change form.

This fact may be enough to cause some atheists to throw up their hands in resignation. It is my hope that most will accept that this is a never ending battle against ignorance and greed Christians may be as mercurial as chameleons, but we should not concede victory to them by default.

[Exian]

I have faith in the people's ability to compartmentalize. For most, the situation in Charleston will not call God into question. Other than happening in a church, this won't register on any theistic level for most Christians. It may be that you are giving too much credit to Christians, who largely lead unexamined lives. Give it a month, and it's business a usual.

[abaris]

This fact may be enough to cause some atheists to throw up their hands in resignation.  It is my hope that most will accept that this is a never ending battle against ignorance and greed Christians may be as mercurial as chameleons, but we should not concede victory to them by default.

I don't see it as a battle to begin with. If someone tries to pester me or the mostly secular society I live in, I defend my territory, but otherwise I couldn't care less what anyone believes for themselves.

Same goes for this forum. The (mostly) christians and few muslims that come here have it coming. I don't pull my punches when I meet ignorant and stupid, but you won't find me on a christian board seeking a confrontation.

Last, I can only repeat what I'm always saying. If religion were to vanish entirely, the void would be instantly filled with new ideologies. There will always be people, who can't live without some kind of inner circle where they're allowed to feel special.

[Nope]

I think that there is a  combination of different ideas to explain why some Christians respond as they do. I agree with the Op but also wanted to add more factors

Christians are taught they are supposed to be killed and hated for their belief. The closer that they are to god, the more that non Christians are supposed to hate them. This can sometimes make having a discussion difficult because some Christians believe that public outrage, even when they say crazy things, is proof that they are on god's side. (Notice I said some Christians, not all)

The media, including Fox, has finally picked up on the fact that gullible Christians with a persecution complex means big bucks. They market themselves to Christians and the idea that their religion is hated. Of course, they only want pretend persecution that they can whine loudly about and ignore any verse concerning turning the cheek.

The terrorist attack on the church in SC had less to do with the victims' faith and everything to do with their race. Fox News makes money over frightening elderly white people. It would go against their narrative to focus on racism and why it contributed to the attack so they focus on the religious persecution angle.

Actually, maybe we should make up a term to describe the religion of certain people who call themselves Christians in America. Their faith doesn't seem to have much to do with Jesus but is a combination of nationalism and fear.

Ironically, the families of the victims in SC, sound far more Christian in their attempt to forgive Dylan Roof than anything that I have ever heard on Fox.

(Again, I am not talking about all Christians. If you are religious and don't feel this applies to you then it probably doesn't)

[Jenny A]

Churches and temples have been burned and looted since there were churches and temples to loot and it doesn't seem to do more than cause followers to double down on their faith. Most Christians I've known didn't and don't expect god to protect them from violence, illness, or poverty.  They think of faith as a way to support oneself in trouble, not an shield from trouble.  They may be more shocked at violence in a church then elsewhere, but only because they expect their fellow human beings to have more respect and not because they think god is defending it.

The Christian martyr card played with more and more frequency by Christians in the U.S. particularly evangelicals is troubling.  But I don't think the black community in Charleston is going to let them have it.  It was obviously a racist act by an extremely unbalanced person, and that's the way it will play.

[abaris]

Ironically, the families of the victims in SC, sound far more Christian in their attempt to forgive Dylan Roof than anything that I have ever heard on Fox.

And that's something I really admire. Even more so, since I don't believe to have it in me when being put in a similar situation.

[Minimalist]

John 11:26

Whosoever lives and believes in me shall never die. Believe thou this?

Fuck no.

[Rhondazvous]

Their faith doesn't seem to have much to do with Jesus but is a combination of nationalism and fear.

First of all, I want to change your name to Yep.

Since Constantine instituted Christianity as the state religion to save the crumbling Roman empire, Christianity has been the drug of choice for western governments. Today, it serves as a mouthpiece for ffascisim. I noticed how in this town whenever Christians get together outside of Church to do something, they always say the pledge of alligence before they pray. They would deny that by doing this, the flag upstages the cross in their priorities, but Christianity has always been a tool to westernize and Europeanize non-western cultures.

That being the case, the separation of race and religion is blurred. Especially considering that this is a historidccally Black church. This particular church was founded by Denmark Vesey, a slave who led what could have been one of the biggest slave revolts in the south if it had not been betrayed. And the attack came on an important anniversary, June 17. The very idea of an African Methodist Episcople church is an affront to White suprtremacy and Eurocentric Christiandom.

[abaris]

Since Constantine instituted Christianity as the state religion to save the crumbling Roman empire, Christianity has been the drug of choice for western governments.

Constatine didn't do that. It was emperor Theodosius in 380, with the Edict of Thessalonica.

[Rhondazvous]

Since Constantine instituted Christianity as the state religion to save the crumbling Roman empire, Christianity has been the drug of choice for western governments.

Constatine didn't do that. It was emperor Theodosius in 380, with the Edict of Thessalonica.

You are correct. Thanks for the heads up. I am that much more knowledgeable because of you.