I'm Swiss

[leo-rcc]

Well I'm pretty skeptic about anything. So umbrella indoors, black cats crossing, lucky underwear, none of those things apply to me.

I'm really Taurus that way.

[Daystar]

I know how certainly at least a LOT of believers do. They "believe" in God because they fear him and hell and/or want a reward in heaven. The whole Pascal's Wager thing is a thing entirely based on risk/reward. Placing a bet so that one will go to heaven rather than hell. Totally based on fear and/or desire to go to heaven.
Pure ignorance based on fear and/or selfish desire. Or selfless desire perhaps if they actually try to get their family, friends and others to make the same wager.
Extreme ignorance at its highest level. Based on fear, desire or - usually - both.
"If people are good only because they fear punishment, and hope for reward, then we are a sorry lot indeed. " - Albert Einstein.
I agree with Einstein's opinion.

To a extent I agree with what you are saying, with the general idea of it. There most certainly is that fear based upon ignorance in modern day Xianity. But what I have learned is that a great deal more of that fear, when examined more closely, is actually selfrighteous indignation.

I once knew some JWs who had a discussion with a local fire and brimstone (hell) preacher. They told him there was no hell and he smiled and said he knew that. Somewhat surprised they asked him if he taught hell nevertheless in order to scare his congregation into being good Xians and attending church and actually laughed out loud at this. He said; "No! Not at all. I teach hell because if I didn't my congregation would fire me."

If you stop and think about it the atheistic general consesus that Xians or even the Laws in ancient Bible times were designed to control people is a fairly oversimplistic, short sighted, if not completely incorrect one. I myself, even after a few years of study of the Bible and discussions with Xians thought that way.

[Edwardo Piet]

I know how certainly at least a LOT of believers do. They "believe" in God because they fear him and hell and/or want a reward in heaven. The whole Pascal's Wager thing is a thing entirely based on risk/reward. Placing a bet so that one will go to heaven rather than hell. Totally based on fear and/or desire to go to heaven.
Pure ignorance based on fear and/or selfish desire. Or selfless desire perhaps if they actually try to get their family, friends and others to make the same wager.
Extreme ignorance at its highest level. Based on fear, desire or - usually - both.
"If people are good only because they fear punishment, and hope for reward, then we are a sorry lot indeed. " - Albert Einstein.
I agree with Einstein's opinion.

To a extent I agree with what you are saying, with the general idea of it. There most certainly is that fear based upon ignorance in modern day Xianity. But what I have learned is that a great deal more of that fear, when examined more closely, is actually selfrighteous indignation.

I once knew some JWs who had a discussion with a local fire and brimstone (hell) preacher. They told him there was no hell and he smiled and said he knew that. Somewhat surprised they asked him if he taught hell nevertheless in order to scare his congregation into being good Xians and attending church and actually laughed out loud at this. He said; "No! Not at all. I teach hell because if I didn't my congregation would fire me."

If you stop and think about it the atheistic general consesus that Xians or even the Laws in ancient Bible times were designed to control people is a fairly oversimplistic, short sighted, if not completely incorrect one. I myself, even after a few years of study of the Bible and discussions with Xians thought that way.

I don't particularly think, at least entirely that the bible was wrote to control people. If that's what you are saying? I certainly think it could have been. Or simply certain laws could have been given to do so.
But one thing I do claim to know, and that is the bible was a book written by people over 2000 years ago in the ignorance of the times. And the times were more ignorant then than now. Evidently, you know that through history. In general at least. People back then were more backward.
No wonder the bible is a load of nonsense. Its so old how can these people who wrote it possibly know about cosmology? Just any belief is NOT better than no theory. A dangerous, incorrect and delusional backward belief is not better than no belief. This is the mistake people have made.
It pays off to be more patient and wait for the evidence to be in. Not to have the conceit and arrogance to think you can know things that you just can't possibly know. The total ignorance of it is absurd.
Oh and I don't have any superstitions either. At least that I know of! Would it count if you had one and didn't know? If it was an unknown superstitious habit or thought and not a belief that you held? Would that count?
I don't know if that would count if I had that anyway. Or if you did Daystar. Have a superstition you don't know about.
And, no I am not superstitious to my knowledge, I don't believe in superstition.

[Tiberius]

To me superstitious is fear based upon ignorance. That I don't have and was surprised to learn that many atheists do.

Could you explain what "fear" atheists have that is based on ignorance?

I'm not talking about a fear in atheists in general, I'm just saying that all of the atheists I know seem to have superstitions like not opening an umberella indoors or good luck shirts things of that nature. Friday the 13th etc.

There are perfectly logical explanations for all of those events. Simply put, people believed them for so long that they become ingrained into our minds as bad things. You do eventually grow out of them though.

Another example is of dice rolling. For a seemingly "bizarre" reason, people always think the number 6 on a dice is the least likely throw, even though it has an equal chance of appearing. The reason for this is based in our dice games where 6 is the best number to throw, and therefore we think it to be "very lucky" to throw a 6 (because we gain the most). The "least likely" thing stems from rolling two dice where the highest value (12) is gained by rolling 2 sixes, and the chance of that happening is indeed very small (1/36).

[Edwardo Piet]

Yes Adrian.
With religion its more difficult. But I of course believe that belief in the supernatural have logical and natural explanations too.
Basically I think belief in the supernatural, in miracles, in "God" or gods...is just a BIG and very popular superstition. Right?
So Daystar needs to understand that since atheists consider the supernatural as a superstition. We think that they require the same explanation(s). That is a logical and rational explanation. At least I do.
And if we think God can be explained logically and rationally. Then obviously at least I think (I can't speak for all atheists) that superstition certainly can.
Belief in God is a big superstition, in my view.