No one helped man getting killed in train

[Nope]

The associated story from the Washington Post gives a slightly different take on the situation.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/crim...story.html

The Federalist is a right-wing rag.

According to your article, several people called the police so they were trying to help. Unfortunately, it wasn't enough. What a tragic situation.

[Cato]

The author of the article linked in the OP is a complete fucking moron. His comparison to the passengers of Flight 93 is outrageous. The only way that comparison would have been fair is if the passengers of Flight 93 had had immediately acted in unison to thwart the initial hijacking as the crew was being attacked. I am not taking anything away from the passengers heroic efforts to regain control of the plane; however, they only acted after discussing the matter and having a reasonable expectation regarding their fate after learning of the events in NY. The comparison of the situations is idiotic.

[Napoléon]

But having said that, a whole crowd of people vs 1 teen with a knife? Yeah they could have done something.

Nobody disputed that.

That's one of those situations where people could have come together and collectively manhandled that guy to the floor. It would have been so easy for a couple people to quickly grab him while he was focused on his target then for someone else to grab the knife out his hand. Overall I do agree with the guy who wrote the article, I have to shake my head at a whole crowd of people on the train who stood by and did nothing when it was only a knife, not a gun, and when they had the advantage of numbers.

I'm sorry, but this is so horribly, horribly wrong.

Could they have done something? Yes. Absolutely. Should they have? Yes, they probably should. In an ideal world we'd all have it in us to be courageous and save whoever we saw in need.

However the real world isn't like that. How you, or anyone else who wasn't there can have any right to judge those people and condemn them for not acting in a situation where you yourself have literally no comprehension of how frightening it is, is despicable in my honest opinion.

We can all come out with if, buts and maybes. It could have been a totally different outcome, ofcourse it could. Sure it was only a knife. But how can you judge others for not endangering their own lives, to save someone they don't know? Can you categorically say you would do something in that situation? Like fuck can you. Would you be willing without hesitation to jump in front of a murderer holding a knife for someone you've never met? I don't think so. For that reason alone you have no right to condemn these people as cowards.

We'd all like to think we'd jump in and save someone. We could even be more confident in doing so if we had other people with us. But the cold hard reality is, that you have no idea how you'd really react in a situation like that. And shame on you and anyone else branding these innocent people as cowards.

If it had been an almost empty carriage and a whole crowd of guys who got on with knives (or worse, guns), I could get it, you're outnumbered. I just think for a whole crowd of dozens of people to stand by and collectively decide to do nothing is cowardly. Really despairing.

The numbers don't make a blind bit of difference. When you jump in front of a knife wielding maniac, you do it alone. There's no guarantee someone else would jump in to save you. In a scenario like this, shit happens fast and you have a split-second decision to make. I won't be one of the dickwads who condemns a bunch of people thrown into a god awful situation.

[Longhorn]

Couldn't even read past the headline. The author is a turd -_-

I don't know. I can't judge anyone. I have no idea how I'd act in a situation like that, but I'm willing to bet I'd be sitting there losing my shit.

Sure, whole train vs one teen. But that's a rational assessment of the situation, something there isn't time for when it is happening right in front of you. I can't blame anyone on that train for not jumping right in.

The alpha/beta male shit is so fucking stupid. I'd like to see some of those 'alpha males' in that train. Easy to be a fucking hero on the internet -_-

[Minimalist]

Sure, whole train vs one teen.

"Whole train" turns out to be about 10 people, half of whom, at least, were women and one was a nearly 80 year old man.  One of the younger males was the guy being attacked.  If I'm there with my wife my first duty is to protect her....while she is calling 9-1-1.

[rexbeccarox]

I have no idea what I'd do in that situation, although history tells me I'd probably try to help and end up getting stabbed myself. I can't help it: adrenaline or whatever kicks in when I see something like that happening. I was bartending at a real hole years back, and we didn't have any kind of security. It was always just me on shift too, so I was left to my own devices. It was a neighborhood bar that attracted almost strictly regulars, though, so there were few worries.

(yes, I was young and very very dumb)

One evening a group of six or seven people whom I'd never seen before came in and loudly bellied up. Their volume increased as they heckled one of my regulars. Next thing I knew, the regular wasn't in his seat and neither were two of the strangers. Another regular told me they'd all gone outside. I called the police, then went outside to where one of the strangers was going at the regular with a shovel, and he was bleeding profusely. I didn't even think about it; I rushed over, tried to wrestle the shovel out of the dude's hands, and I ended up crumpled on the ground, completely knocked out. The black eye showed up later. My regular ended up with eighteen stitches on his head, and thirty something on one of his arms. He couldn't go back to work for weeks.

Not only was I totally ineffective in helping my customer, but I also got hurt. Sort of goes against the point.

I have no ill feelings toward the people who didn't help. It was probably better they didn't, in fact.

[Catholic_Lady]

Some good arguments being made here on both sides. Thanks!

---

I have no idea what I'd do in that situation, although history tells me I'd probably try to help and end up getting stabbed myself. I can't help it: adrenaline or whatever kicks in when I see something like that happening. I was bartending at a real hole years back, and we didn't have any kind of security.  It was always just me on shift too, so I was left to my own devices. It was a neighborhood bar that attracted almost strictly regulars, though, so there were few worries.

(yes, I was young and very very dumb)

One evening a group of six or seven people whom I'd never seen before came in and loudly bellied up.  Their volume increased as they heckled one of my regulars.  Next thing I knew, the regular wasn't in his seat and neither were two of the strangers. Another regular told me they'd all gone outside. I called the police, then went outside to where one of the strangers was going at the regular with a shovel, and he was bleeding profusely. I didn't even think about it; I rushed over, tried to wrestle the shovel out of the dude's hands, and I ended up crumpled on the ground, completely knocked out. The black eye showed up later. My regular ended up with eighteen stitches on his head, and thirty something on one of his arms. He couldn't go back to work for weeks.

Not only was I totally ineffective in helping my customer, but I also got hurt. Sort of goes against the point.

I have no ill feelings toward the people who didn't help.  It was probably better they didn't, in fact.

Wow, amazing! Thank you for putting yourself out there like that. Very admirable.

[Pyrrho]

... That's one of those situations where people could have come together and collectively manhandled that guy to the floor. It would have been so easy for a couple people to quickly grab him while he was focused on his target then for someone else to grab the knife out his hand. ...

Have you ever taken a knife away from someone who is not wanting to hand it over to you and is willing to kill you to keep it?  If not, then what makes you think is would be "so easy" to do it?  Do you know what has happened to a lot of people who have tried to do such things?  What makes you think you would have better luck?

Also, as Napoléon stated above, the other passengers were not a group who had trained together and worked together, and they had no reason whatsoever to think that if one of them stepped forward that anyone else would do so with them.  And certainly, they have not practiced a coordinated attack together for this type of situation.

Being on a subway train, there is not the same room to maneuver as in open space, and so when he tries to stab you with the knife, there may be nowhere for you to go to avoid being stabbed.  And we are discussing a very short period of time, as mentioned in the better article to which Minimalist provided a link:

Jasper Spires boarded the Red Line Metro train at Rhode Island Avenue shortly before 1 p.m. Saturday, joining passengers from the District and elsewhere headed to various Fourth of July festivities, among them the Foo Fighters concert at RFK Stadium. 

As the train rumbled toward its next stop, at NoMa-Gallaudet, a three-minute ride, ...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/crim...story.html

So we are talking about a struggle that probably took no more than 3 minutes from start to finish, including when the guy first grabbed for the victim's cell phone.

[Pyrrho]

...

Not only was I totally ineffective in helping my customer, but I also got hurt. Sort of goes against the point.

I have no ill feelings toward the people who didn't help.  It was probably better they didn't, in fact.

Actually, you make a good point.  Trying to help and actually helping are two different things.  Your earlier call to the police was a really good idea, and I am sure you are glad you did that.


It is hard to say what would have happened if the people on the train tried to wrestle the knife from the guy.  It might have only accomplished getting more people hurt or killed.  And if that had happened, I am sure there would be someone writing an article about how bad and stupid they were to not just call the police.

[Jenny A]

Oddly enough, I think the larger the crowd around a violent act the harder is to jump in to help. It's a combination of thinking someone else will and peer pressure because no one else is moving.

I've intervened when some one was being beat up in junior high. There were two bullies (both girls) the victim (another girl) and me. I didn't even stop to think, and the bullies ran. Yes they had knives, though there hadn't been any cutting.

I watched a three men in a crowd at an outdoor mall push and shove a man and I did no more than call the police. They weren't even armed.

The situation described is in the middle. I would hope that I'd do something, but I don't know.