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RE: question for all
July 18, 2015 at 10:52 am
Probably the stupidest questions I have read trying to prove the way we believe history.
1. There were many people named jesus and I am sure a few made it into the history books
2. There were many men named George Washington, but only one was the USA's first president
3. Washington died about 230 years ago
4. a man named jesus (of which I presume you are talking about) died over 2000 years ago.
5. We have multiple eye witness accounts of Washington, not just from his inside group of men or revisionist historians
The historicity of a man named jesus is a lot different than the historicity of the biblical jesus, try re-pharsing your dumb ass question
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RE: question for all
July 18, 2015 at 10:54 am
(July 18, 2015 at 10:09 am)lkingpinl Wrote: So I would like to pose two questions to any who wish to answer.
1. Do you believe the person of Jesus Christ existed in history? Why (whether yes or no)?
2. Do you believe that George Washington was President of the United States? Why (whether yes or no)?
@ OP
What's the motive behind asking these two particular questions?
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RE: question for all
July 18, 2015 at 11:13 am
1. I find it possible, but unlikely. The evidence for an historic Jesus is exclusively based on hearsay by people with a specific agenda to promote. This makes the 'evidence' highly suspect.
2. Yes, of course. Not only is the evidence for George Washington irrefutable (extant letters written by him and to him, detailed accounts of him that tally with other accounts - some written by people who knew him intimately, some by people who never met him), but history would have unfolded quite differently without an historic Washington, whereas the history of Christianity would have unfolded much the same whether the person known as 'Jesus of Nazareth' was historic or mythic.
But I get what you're trying to do here. You wish to make the argument that the case for an historic Jesus is on par with the case for an historic Washington. Not to be harsh, but this is a stupifyingly idiotic position to take. You put me in mind of the time a theist made the claim, 'We have as much evidence for Jesus as we have for Abraham Lincoln.' My response was that if she could produce photos of Jesus, she'd make a bloody fortune.
Boru
‘I can’t be having with this.’ - Esmeralda Weatherwax
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RE: question for all
July 18, 2015 at 11:17 am
1. No. Because there is no evidence beyond the pious bleating of believers who wish it were so.
2. Yes. Because there is a metric fuckton of evidence.
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RE: question for all
July 18, 2015 at 11:23 am
(July 18, 2015 at 10:09 am)lkingpinl Wrote: So I would like to pose two questions to any who wish to answer.
1. Do you believe the person of Jesus Christ existed in history? Why (whether yes or no)?
2. Do you believe that George Washington was President of the United States? Why (whether yes or no)? Since min here has basically stated my position for me I must ask, do you have any letters written by Jesus? Or too Jesus? No, then they aren't even close to equilevant
To-morrow, and to-morrow, and to-morrow,
Creeps in this petty pace from day to day,
To the last syllable of recorded time;
And all our yesterdays have lighted fools
The way to dusty death. Out, out, brief candle!
Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player,
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage,
And then is heard no more. It is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.
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RE: question for all
July 18, 2015 at 11:25 am
(This post was last modified: July 18, 2015 at 11:26 am by IATIA.)
(July 18, 2015 at 10:09 am)lkingpinl Wrote: So I would like to pose two questions to any who wish to answer.
1. Do you believe the person of Jesus Christ existed in history? Why (whether yes or no)?
2. Do you believe that George Washington was President of the United States? Why (whether yes or no)?
- I have no real reason to disbelieve and do not care one way or the other, but I do not believe in the miracles and resurrection.
- I have no real reason to disbelieve, but he did not cut down a cherry tree.
'His' 'Story' is fallible in an asundry of ways.
You make people miserable and there's nothing they can do about it, just like god.
-- Homer Simpson
God has no place within these walls, just as facts have no place within organized religion.
-- Superintendent Chalmers
Science is like a blabbermouth who ruins a movie by telling you how it ends. There are some things we don't want to know. Important things.
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Once something's been approved by the government, it's no longer immoral.
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RE: question for all
July 18, 2015 at 11:49 am
(This post was last modified: July 18, 2015 at 12:14 pm by Jenny A.)
If there is a god, I want to believe that there is a god. If there is not a god, I want to believe that there is no god.
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RE: question for all
July 18, 2015 at 11:52 am
As others have hinted at, what criteria does a historical person have to fulfil to count as Jesus Christ for your purposes?
The fool hath said in his heart, There is a God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
Psalm 14, KJV revised edition
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RE: question for all
July 18, 2015 at 11:57 am
(July 18, 2015 at 11:52 am)Alex K Wrote: As others have hinted at, what criteria does a historical person have to fulfil to count as Jesus Christ for your purposes?
It's imbedded in the OP's original post. Was Washington President? Did Jesus exist? A more neutral pairing would be:
Was Washington President?
Did Jesus rise from the dead.
The answers to those two questions are pretty easy. Yes; extraordinarily unlikely (so unlikely as to count as no for all practical purposes).
If there is a god, I want to believe that there is a god. If there is not a god, I want to believe that there is no god.
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RE: question for all
July 18, 2015 at 11:58 am
1. The character in the book? No. Someone he could have been very loosely based on? Probably hundreds of people.
2. Probably. I don't know stuff.
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